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Restoration Beyond the Couch
The Beyond the Couch with Dr. Lee Long podcast is intended solely for general informational purposes and does not represent the practice of medicine, therapeutic and psychiatric services, nursing, or other professional health care services. It also does not constitute the provision of medical, therapeutic or psychiatric advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is established. The information on this podcast and any materials linked from it are used at the user's own risk. The content provided through this podcast should not be considered a replacement for professional medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice, diagnosis, or treatment. It is important that users do not ignore or postpone seeking medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice for any health or mental health condition they might have, and should always consult with their health care professionals regarding such conditions.
Restoration Beyond the Couch
Innovations in College Mental Health: Supporting Student Well-Being
In this episode of Restoration Beyond the Couch, Dr. Lee Long sits down with Eric Wood to explore innovations in college mental health and the growing need for mental health support among students. Together, they discuss the unique challenges faced by college students, the latest strategies and programs designed to foster resilience, and practical solutions for improving well-being on campuses.
This conversation sheds light on how mental health care is evolving to meet the needs of today’s students and offers valuable insights for educators, parents, and students alike. Don’t miss this important discussion on the future of mental wellness in higher education.
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch. I'm Dr Lee Long, and in today's episode I'm joined by Eric Wood to discuss a topic that's more important than ever mental health and college students. Students face the growing need for mental health support on campuses and strategies to foster resilience and well-being during these formative years. Join us for an insightful conversation packed with valuable perspectives and practical advice. Your path to mental wellness starts here. Well welcome Eric Dr Wood. You can call me Eric, but thank you, thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm glad you're here. Well, welcome Eric Dr Wood. You can call me Eric, but thank you, thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm glad you're here. So your role at TCU, texas Christian University yes, the, the well, I was going to say the one-time almost football champion, but I probably shouldn't bring that up.
Speaker 2:Hey, like you said, everyone else was home, so we got to play for a national championship.
Speaker 1:That's right. Yeah, that's right. So, yeah, you are the head of the mental health department. How do you describe that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm the director of the counseling mental health center, so I have about 20 people in our staff, which is a good number for a student, about 13,000 of the student body. So yeah, we're the student counseling center pretty much, and so it's part of the tuition.
Speaker 1:Students can come and see a therapist, you know, for a wide range of things no-transcript, but to have different providers that are not part of TCU be partners with TCU and provide this on campus. And we kind of kicked this off with the DBT program, the Dialectical Behavioral Therapy program, and so can you talk us through where that vision came from and how it's grown and what you've seen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's just part of the model and it also is a collaboration. Talking to other schools, they don't do it the way we do or articulate it the way we did, but it's a fact. Most people don't think about college mental health. I know there's a lot of expectations on what schools can provide, but we are a school, we're not a treatment community and that's not the goal.
Speaker 2:To be, a treatment community. The goal is to be an institution of higher education. But at the same time, you know, college students are a high demographic for pretty much anything. Just I mean name it, second highest demographic for suicide attempts A lot of things emerge or escalate during 1825. And so we do have a really high kind of, you know, need for services.
Speaker 2:But the ideal is just kind of looking at okay, we have colleges, we don't have the programs, but we do have the infrastructure, we do have the assets to the students. You don't have to build a hospital, we have all the technology right there, but we don't have the programs. And that's by design, because we were not designed by that. Right, you're hired, like you said, you're a higher education institution, but we're fortunate to have a lot of treatment centers that are the opposite. They have the programs by design, they have a program that's specifically designed for students with high mental health needs, but they don't have the access to the students, they don't have the infrastructure, they don't have the things that we have.
Speaker 2:So the idea is, why don't we just build a bridge and that's one of the aspects of our model and, yeah, that way we go to a treatment center and say can we use your program but use our resources and access? And then that way, yeah, the ideal is that students who have high mental health needs they were still taking a lot of our resources. If you look at the national study, most counseling centers spend about 50% of our sessions on 20% of clients and those are students with really high mental health needs. Maybe we refer them off, maybe they go. We don't go, but someone's always worried about them. There's always a safety check, there's always crisis walk-ins, so we're spending so much time on them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it walk-ins, so we're spending so much time on them. Yeah, it eats up you.
Speaker 2:And not to say it eats up, but it really does dominate a lot of the university's resources. Yeah, we're spending 50% on 20% of clients. And then you have these other students who that's what we were designed for normative development of concerns, who can't get in because we're doing it. So the ideal is, instead of hiring new staff again. What would that do? You know, if we have the same scope of care, we don't have the programs to give me new staff. I'm still, you know.
Speaker 1:And the interesting thing to in the all of that to me is that in what are the outcomes if you are spending that? What are the outcomes of that? 50% of the time, yes, are there positive outcomes.
Speaker 2:I mean, and the old, traditional way, like, no, they weren't getting treatment and they would just, you know, have this cycle of coming to the counseling center doing a safety check. Maybe we're for our campus not going, you know, and we were just suspending a lot of time and, yeah, there's a high risk things, negative outcomes, could happen. But if you imagine those 20%, if there were programs for them, you know, if there was something that they could go and they would get in treatment and the counseling center staff didn't have to do it, right, yeah, what would be the outcome then? Would that trickle down to having less after hours on call, you know? Would that trickle down to less hospitalizations? Would that trickle down to make it easy for the dean of students? Would it trickle down to the counseling center, because we have 50% more capacity to see more students? There was just that thought like what would be the trickle down effect? And we've shown that, yeah, it works. Like, if you do that and you do things for the 20%, the trickle down effect is phenomenal.
Speaker 1:The trickle-down effect is phenomenal. The trickle-down effect for the university is phenomenal, not to mention the trickle-down effect for the students. Yes, I mean, I remember our first year, or our first cycle, I should say, of our DBT program on the campus, where I think I'm remembering this correctly that we were sort of a test case and what we found the data, the outcome data that we found was that the students learned the skills, which was fantastic. I mean, they're a university student, they're there to learn right Education is their purpose for being there and they were learning the skills that we were teaching in the in the DBT program.
Speaker 1:We found that their incidence of self-harm dropped. We had no one who self-harmed while they were in. We had no hospitalizations. So we had people who were repetitive, repetitively hospitalized in the semesters. They were not hospitalized. And this one, this one was a thing that I don't know why. This was a surprise to me, but it really was a surprise to me and when I look at it I should. I'm like duh, their grades went up, yeah, their grades went up because their mental health was being handled or being addressed and their grades went up, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. And not to mention because that first pilot, I think we had 24 slots and every student that we gave you would have been a student that traditionally would have been either referred off campus or would have taken medical leave, right, and I think we kept 22 of the 24 in school that is right Stayed enrolled, that is right. And, yeah, we just had so much indicators. That was good. You mentioned that one student it was a junior who said every semester they were there, they had been hospitalized, they were not hospitalized, they were in that program for a year, right, and then they graduated, right. And so, yeah, the outcome that was just proof of concept like this is really working, because not only, like I said, because you had all those outcomes, but our counseling, our staff saw more students, we saw more other students there were less hospitals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, lower acuity students right students with us lesser concerns, just the more the typical type of things and we had more space for them.
Speaker 2:And then our uh, because you know for us, if someone goes hospital, our campus police goes, but we less patrols, which means that they had, you know, less time being off campus. You know they could spend more time on campus. So again, that just goes down to the trickle effect. And then you imagine the parents. You know, I mean the parents were excited because the students are staying in school and they're doing well, the grades are going up, and these are students that had a history. I mean every student we saw on the pilot.
Speaker 1:The counseling center would not have been able to there, would those students were. All of them were beyond a scope of care, right? Yeah, the because their, their level of acuity was barely at the edge of outpatient versus inpatient and inpatient takes them away from what they're there for yeah, and that's what a lot of people don't understand.
Speaker 2:They think all counseling, counseling is the same, like, oh, there's a counseling center, it's all the same and it's just like. No, you really, like a doctor can't treat everything, you know. That's actually unethical. So it'd be unethical for me to say, you know the 13,000 students, the counseling center can treat them all Right, like that can't promise that. We're not that good. So the ideal is, like some people put those expectations, we'll just go to the counseling center. Where the question is does the counseling center have the ability to treat them? Because if you don't, then kind of what's the point? So we really have to look how can we expand our scope of care? And you can build your own program, hire a bunch of staff, but why would you if there's a treatment center who already has the program that you're looking for?
Speaker 2:It's a lot less expensive yeah.
Speaker 1:So this has been so. The pilot was am I right to remember it was 2018?
Speaker 2:I think it was right before because I became I've been at TC since 2007, became director at 2019, which is right before the pandemic happened. But before that, yeah, we did a pilot, so it started, so it was on the air. It carried over to 2019, but, yeah, cause I was back in that summer.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, and so for the last. So this, this program has been rolling for now five years. So what, what like? What are some of the things that you've seen in these five years? So what, what like? What are some of the things that? You've seen in these five years, and what?
Speaker 2:yeah, Again, you have to think. Every student that we refer to you would be on a scope of care, so you can make it in terms of retention. You know, most of those students at the very least probably would have taken a medical job for at least a semester. They may have come back, but at least the I mean their academic progress would have been interrupted and their graduation delay. So just that alone is worth it.
Speaker 2:To sit there and say every single student that we've done every semester probably would have taken a medical job and left the school and you're already able to keep them Because there hasn't been that many students in the program that had to leave. Most of the students stay in school, right, and y'all were able to keep them. Yeah, because there hasn't been that many students in the program that had to leave. Like, most of the students stay in school and complete. So that is it's definitely amazing, but the thing is there's so many unknowns, like we're not going to know, like how many of those students didn't attempt a suicide, you know True.
Speaker 1:Because we can't prove a negative.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can't prove a negative, but those are students who were at risk for it, you know. So it's very likely that we save lives, you know, or at least attempt suicides, that's very likely. Or substances you use, or relationships. There's a lot of things that we just never know, but we do know. We have this huge group of students now who've been treated, and you know better than I do, DVD carries a whole life. So what is the future impact? Not only do they stay in school this year, but they use the school for the year after that. They probably use those skills when they get married as a parent, you know. As a coworker, you know, employee. So you know, we'll never know that, but we can say I mean, we hear the students and say this program is amazing. And of all of our programs, the DBT is the one we hear the most positive feedback about.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. Because I guess the emotional regulation and we hear from parents yeah, I mean you're changing people's those lives and yeah, and it helps us, because when y'all do that work, we're free to do more.
Speaker 2:See more students, wow, thank you for that.
Speaker 1:I I didn't, I didn't know that. Um, I know that when it, when you go back to the idea of outcomes, you know it's.
Speaker 2:I've recently published an article in the cognitive therapy and research journal and um when the pandemic hit, when the shutdown hit, and so, if you think about that, I mean that is formative years of a lot of relationships and the way you think about the world and things like that. And so that cohort now has this frame of reference where they were doing a shutdown during its formative years. The world has been hostile for them, so they don't know what it's like not to have wars, not to have a pandemic and everything like that, and so, and then they transition a lot of them to a new school the next year, into high school, all that stuff. So we are definitely seeing 2008 is different, because before, right after the pandemic, there was a lot of separation, anxiety, there's a lot of disconnect, and now we're seeing the people who are in junior high. They have a fundamentally different view of the world, which makes total sense, and we expect it for the next couple of years that way.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, when people in elementary come to college, it might be a little more stabilized, but for this cohort, for the next three or four years, if you think about where they were when the pandemic hit and how that formed their view of the world, their view of relationships, their view of themselves how they handle emotions. Yeah, these next three or four years is really important for college mental health just because of that developmental lifestyle. So we're definitely seeing that health just because of that developmental life. Yeah, so we're definitely seeing that.
Speaker 1:That's so. You're so right, that's so interesting to consider that this cause you're you're saying that the the graduating class from TCU of 2028 is is the income?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, incoming. They'll graduate in 28.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that the the the the impact of the pandemic in their development, and we're seeing that in college now in the mental health landscape. That's so interesting. Deborah Atkinson was here a week or so ago and she was talking about how we have exclaimed that the pandemic is over and it's like but do we recognize the impact that the pandemic has had on us or do we just shut it down and leave it behind?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean it's a global trauma. You know just even the shutdown, because that altered. If you look at the definition of trauma, that altered it. You know even the shutdown did, because you know all the SAMHSA definition and met with it. But yeah, it's one thing if you're an adult, you know you cope with it. You know because maybe you lost your job but you got a new job. You know, in relationships, but when you were a junior high and that happened and it was a formative year, it changes your whole perspective of things. But yeah, it's not going to go back. You know there's going to be a different type of student and that's just the way it is. It's huge world history. You see it in other history, when World War II happened, the college students were different, you know. So you see, anything that affects the globe is going to affect it. Like we say, what affects you as a person affects you as a learner, and so it makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's that's. I love that. That's so interesting to conceptualize it from that perspective, because that's not just TCU, that's everyone. Yeah, that's the landscape of university students. Yeah, Worldwide. Wow Is there. Is there any other trends that you see on the mental health landscape?
Speaker 2:I mean in terms of mental health, anxiety as a priest, depression and things like that. But I think right now, the other kind of global thing I don't know if you heard about the demographic cliff. So right now, to start next year, there is literally less 17-year-olds on the planet now than there's ever been. Oh right, and it goes down from 10 years Like seven-year-olds. It sounds like the distance is great. So we know, about 10 years there's literally less of them. It's because my generation has less kids. So yeah, so there's literally going to be theoretically less college students and it starts next year. So you, you're already seeing some of like the directional, smaller colleges close, um, enrollment numbers, but people are thinking, okay, what is that going to be the impact of that, of just having fewer college students? That, because now colleges you know a lot of them are having budget constraints you know cutting this so it's not.
Speaker 2:Most people think, like the big state schools and elite private schools would be okay. But if you look about the, you know Southwest, whatever Southwest those are struggling in enrollment and so some people think, you know, how's that going to help? You know the student support, because I mean, you definitely need that and one of the things that's also interesting is how people pick colleges. It used to be for academic reasons why do I want to pick college for this? But now there's been such a shift of people thinking, oh, you even need college, you do not. But now the number one thing I just heard, I think, with Gallup poll that people are picking college based on student support. Families want to know what is the life of the student going to be like on college. That has surpassed academic reputation now. So then that like yeah, that with the demographic cliff, you would think that a lot of schools you know are thinking well, how do we support our students now, since there's going to be less of them and that's going to be a priority?
Speaker 1:So do you see this? Do you see other universities trying to race to the party and try to create?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you already see it, like if people are talking.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's why a lot of people look at TCU, cause you know we have a lot of things at TCU, um, but that's a lot of I'm sorry to interrupt you, but a lot, not just a lot of things at TCU, but there's a lot of proven entities at TCU where you have kept we, I know, I know we keep data because we want to understand outcomes. I mean, just as an organization, we all want to know what our outcomes are, because that's great if everybody feels great and wants to sing Kumbaya after we end a session. But at the end of the day, what do you take with you? That's what's important. I mean, yes, it's important to have a good feeling at the end, I guess, but it's the, like you said, are we impacting you down the road? And so go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, I mean that's huge for us Because I mean, yeah, when we started, it was such an out-of-box like new thing, yeah. And so, yeah, we're very careful. What data do we collect? We do have a network of schools. I've talked to government, went to Austin, even talked to, like the Surgeon General in DC and all that. And, yeah, you need to have the data to say that this actually works. Because that's our goal.
Speaker 2:I mean, I told my boss when we first started I want to change college mental health, because if you think about the mental health epidemic of America, where would you start? And you know, when I talked to government officials, I said start with colleges. It's not the end-all be-all, but, yeah, you have an infrastructure, like you said. You have people, we have the buildings, we have the technology, we have the access to the biodemographic. There's not a lot of systems that have that and you can do so much good with so less money. Right, but just collaborate, don't build new things, just collaborate with things that are already there. Already there, yeah, and that message has resonated.
Speaker 2:But that's the question how you know it works. And we've been doing this for five years and we have all the data we can talk to students. We have all the things and of course it just makes sense like the programs that we have, like you and the other treatment centers. Again, these programs were designed right for students with mental health needs. So there's a lot of evidence base, a lot of validation. They're not like these new, you know out of nowhere you know programs. It's just like, it's just no one's ever thought about it. It's like, oh, do we have the infrastructure? They have the program, let's just combine them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when, you, when and I want to come back to something that you said about the, the U S surgeon general. I want to.
Speaker 1:I want to hover over that for a minute. But when you, when you, approached me about this idea, I thought, oh my gosh, how brilliant is this? Because we would always market to you all to say, hey, we're here, we have a relationship, we love to work with this age group. And when you said, well, why don't we create a partnership? I thought that is one of the most brilliant things I've ever heard.
Speaker 2:well, part of it is neat because, I mean, some of the time, some students, they'll never go off campus, right, you know. Because they have all these questions like if I go off campus, who am I going to be in group with you know, um, or is it, you know, like we have donors that pay for it? You know they can't afford to pay for it. They don't have a car, they can't even get here, right? So there's a lot of barriers to that. But when you put it on campus it just reduces a lot of the barriers. I mean the stigma like you're only going to be in group with college students and we do it to support you in academics. That's why we're really big on fundraising, because then we can say you don't have to pay for it, it's not out of pocket cost. We try to take the excuses away, or the barriers, I should say away, and that is the best way to do it on campus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it truly is your heart for the college students. I mean it's really evident. So let's go back to the Surgeon General and let's hover over that for a minute. Tell us more about what that meeting was about.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean we're going to get a new Surgeon General, obviously, but the last one, he is very big on mental health.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you've read anything about the Surgeon General, but social media, you know, impact mental health and most Surgeon Generals they'll pick a cause, you know, but a lot of them is like physical, you know Right, so if we have a surgeon general, say, mental health is going to be his cause and he wrote a book on loneliness, you know, and I mean that's just his platform.
Speaker 2:So I mean it was a think tank in DC and he was presenting at the beginning and I was actually presenting with the former director of Secretary of Health and Human Services at the last panel, and so we were just talking and he was, you know, he kind of agreed, you know college and he's done college tours like he, not because of me, I'm just saying he kind of gets it. Um, but I've done stuff. It's just like september. I did like a one-hour briefing with the white house office of science technology and they just wanted to talk and they said this is like it made sense, like they said they like how you're doing because it'll cost less money like they were just thinking in that way.
Speaker 2:Um, and then austin talked to the behavioral health coordinated councils and that was a good example because that was a couple years ago. But just to give you an example, it was there's the behavioral health coordinating councils, all the department, like health services, just like their leadership, and like one of them was a substance use council and they were talking about a campaign they were running at the time and they had difficulty getting in a certain parts of Texas. You know they can get into the Dallas area, the Houston, but like the El Paso and all the rural areas had a hard time into. I looked at that and I was president of our state association. I was like there's a school every. I looked at that and I was president of our state association. I was like there's a school, every single part of the map that they are saying they can't get into. So I was like would you send me that? And you know, and they said and I just sent it to all the directors and I remember she said you accomplished more in five minutes. What did we did in two years and it's just again.
Speaker 2:People just don't's right there, but no one really has thought about that. You know, a lot of schools don't even think about working with, like I mean, especially rural areas, there's mental health authorities. A lot of schools don't even think about working with them. Right, you know so. And now, if you look at it, there's a map interacting with colleges so you can see how close these colleges are and see that was because of us. This is people never really thought about it, like it's right there, the demographic is right there, but people just never thought about partying at the school.
Speaker 1:And it's so interesting because it's like what an overlooked demographic right, but it's the vital demographic.
Speaker 2:The 1825 is a demographic that most people are worried about the most, right, you know. I mean obviously you want earlier, but people don't get confidentiality until they're 18, right, so it's like really effective um well in consent yeah, informed consent then you have to be.
Speaker 1:You're always concerned about the parental informed consent. Younger, yeah, yeah and and when, when they turn 18, it's like they get to choose on their own yeah and, and then try working with high schools of bureaucracy or working with independent school districts.
Speaker 2:It's like because we've had some people try to use us with high schools and just like, I only understand the red tape there, but with colleges you don't have that right because they can choose for themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, that that's really neat, and so that did. Am I right to recall that the Surgeon General gave you an award of some sort?
Speaker 2:No, not the award, I'm trying to think We've gotten a lot of recognition. So, look, we wrote an e-book and that was because I was inspired by Adonis, because all the stuff we were doing, you know, we had, like we did a webinar, we had like a hundred schools show up, you know, and everyone was asking me what do you do? So I just put together like, and it took like six weeks to write. You know, it wasn't that hard, it was just about what we did a philosophy, we had four different objectives. Put it on a website and I donated all the money and I was go to the donor fund and that won an award, that won an international media award, and it raised a lot of money. Like some people buy one copy and give like $10,000. You know, it's just like wow, because all the money goes straight to the students. So there's no bureaucracy, which is good because you don't have to be a million dollar donor.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, if you want to give a couple hundred bucks, you know that goes a long way and that's right. So that got a lot of attention. Is that still available? Oh yeah, if you go in the counseling center website, so counselingtcedu, there's a tab like in the about it says ebook Okay. And if someone goes in there we ask like for $25 and that's kind of tax purposes, like you have to market it above the market value if that makes sense because it's a donation. So if you say 10 bucks, it's just you can buy the book. Yeah, so you have to market it above to say it's a donation. But it's not uncommon that somebody will go and like you see, oh, here's a 500 for one copy, that's really and it's like wow.
Speaker 1:but they know it's a fundraiser and the neat thing to that is is that every time somebody gives above the market value and they give the $500, that's a student can get a number of sessions out of this and you may be the difference, like you donating that. You may be the difference between somebody living and potentially committing suicide.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we've had students so this program kept them from committing suicide. We have huge stories of students saying that and they tell their parents that and they tell us that Even other schools they do it. They'll say the same thing.
Speaker 1:And so now you so currently you were invited to be a guest columnist to Forbes magazine.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I started. So it's a contributor to Forbescom, that's like the official title. Yeah, it just so happened because we were getting a lot of national press of all this and it's kind of serendipitously, like one of our TCU national marketing people used to work for Forbes.
Speaker 2:And she was like yeah, Forbes, you're right, Because you know they're a business, they do a lot of other stuff, but they had never done anything in college mental health. So we had a couple meetings and they were like, yeah, try it, you know, so I'm maybe a contributor, so you can follow me. Eric Wood, just on Forbes, and it's all about college mental health and emerging adulthood. It's new. It just started like in September.
Speaker 2:So it's a kind of a new column, but so far so good I I will tell you I'm enjoying the heck out of it. Oh, thank you every friday yeah, yeah, yeah. And I get the little email that says yeah, and I told you I want to write a piece about emotional regulation, dbt. Yeah, because I think every school should do that. Yeah, I mean, every time you think about the impact, what if every school had a dbt program available to the students?
Speaker 1:yeah, I, I think every school. If, if every school even had a required course for all their students to learn emotion regulation and interpersonal skills you know, distress, tolerance, emotional regulation and the interpersonal skills I think we could slowly begin to change the world I think you could I'm.
Speaker 2:One thing about the class is students are paying for it. You know they're paying for the classes we do our way and they don't pay for it. That's right.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's right. Yeah, so yeah, and so what's been the? Have you had feedback on the Forbes?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean, like I said, it's like a well to be, but just the fact that they're doing it, you know, just the fact that Forbes is has in the college, mental health is out there and even like to have mainstream like I, you know any of you a couple of counseling directors about. There is like a whole thing about ranking counseling centers and there was like pros and cons to that. So you know, so you get to be a lot, a lot of experts and to really kind of give and it's on the website. So go there forever, you know, yeah. So yeah, it's been a good experience, it's been fun. I've learned a lot, you know, just doing it, it's not a long read, you know. It's only like a thousand pages, you know. So maybe two, three minute read.
Speaker 1:A thousand words, not pages. Yeah, a thousand pages. Yeah, that's war and peace. Yeah, that's war and peace.
Speaker 1:So yeah, as long as they keep telling me to do it, I would do it. That's really neat. I love that there's a spotlight on mental health, but also for this age group, because, again, this age group is, this is the training for our future generations, and I often think that if we overlook the generation that's in university, regardless of the timeframe, whether it's the Jenna, gen Z or or whatever comes I don't know what comes up after Gen Z Millennials.
Speaker 2:Is there something that works?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's so many of them that you know somebody was saying to me I don't want to be irrelevant when I'm 60 in the workforce, and my response to them were was the only way we're irrelevant in the workforce when we're 60 is if we have ill will or disdain for the generation that is two generations below you, or two and a half generations below you, because they're the ones coming up, half generations below you, because they're the ones coming up in the workforce and they're the ones that it's, at that point, will be the, the rising superstars, right, making decisions and things like this, and so it's. It really is a care for all, for that generation that's up and coming.
Speaker 2:Yeah and that's why a lot of people work in college mental health, why we work in college mental health, and because it was like, oh, you can do all this other stuff. But I mean, 1825 is also like when things emerge is actually the best time to treat them. That's right. And a lot of times people will say for us, like, you can see the different trajectory, like if they have this family history and, let's say, something happens and they get treated, you, you can literally see they're on a different trajectory and it's easier because most of them aren't married, they haven't written a career, they're talking about school, so the consequences are less. And so a lot of people who work in college mental health will say that's one of the reasons why it's so fulfilling, because you know like, oh, it's more tangible to see, like this person's on a different trajectory and so so, yeah, the ramifications for their future family future, everything, um, but that's what we do.
Speaker 2:Individual, but, yeah, think of it as a nation or you know, it's a globe, right thought. You know, yeah, there's other areas. I'm not going to say this is end all, be all. You think that, but if you really put a focus on the 1825 yield, yeah, I mean, it might take a couple generations, generations, but you will make a huge dent in the whole epidemic of society.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that, like you said, the malleability of that age group, like the, brain is not even forming.
Speaker 2:So, as I say, it's literally easier to treat. If you can get treated right now, yeah, they wait 10 to 15 years. It could be more ingrained their bodies, you know, and their brain is brains more formed. Now they're talking about child custody, their marriages, but you get them before they have any of that, you know. That's right. So it's literally easier. In colleges, like I said, it's probably the easiest time to access, like literally most of the college students live by us or they travel by us every single day. You know I can get that community provider. Like, if you're working there, you're not going to literally be able to just drive by a counseling center, right, see, a licensed professor without ever taking out your wallet, a licensed professional without ever taking out your wallet, you know.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:All they do is show us a 9ID. You know Right. So it literally is, in terms of access, I think, probably the easiest time to access.
Speaker 1:It's the easiest time to access. It's the easiest time to access. It's this building, this bridge. Once it was built, it just makes all the sense in the world. I feel very honored that, that we got to be the pilot study, um, and I also feel honored to know that it's a, that there's such a beautiful positive impact that you guys get a lot of good feedback. That's uh, that's super honoring. One of the things that we love to do is, uh, any advice for our listeners, because you know, restoration beyond the couch, it's you know. Do you have any advice or any? Do you want to leave any points, point or points for our listeners that you think, gosh, this would be really helpful for them to consider, think about, know.
Speaker 2:I mean all different types of advice, I mean the things that we're talking about. Like you know, we talked about parents and yeah, it's certainly because, especially with this generation, a lot of times parents, they lose the fact that they are still the number one influence on the student's lives. You look at all the data. I know the attitudes some students give their parents Trust me, I've seen it and students, you know parents seem to feel like they're hopeless and lost. You know, with their kids because there's so much other stuff and they'll speak a whole different language. But I know from personal experience people look at the data what is the number one influence on a student's life is going to be their parents you know.
Speaker 1:That's where that's worth like hovering over for just a moment, because I think, I think that you're right that as parents there is we lose the the um, we lose the idea, we lose the notion that as a parent, we still are the most impactful relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, we hear it all the time and people, parents, like I don't know how to say to approach my student and when I tell them the process is more important than the content. You know, I love that, just the fact that you just went and tried it, even if it's awkward.
Speaker 1:Because it's going to be awkward.
Speaker 2:And even if you stumble, even if you sit and don't know what to say. The student's going to remember that, like my parent tried to have this conversation, so the process is definitely more important. But the one thing I tell, the stat that I tell all the parents is for colleges or us. We literally keep track of it and every year it's about around 85% of students say they come because somebody asked them to. Every year it's about around 85 percent of students say they come because somebody asked them to. Like it's very rare for a student on their own to be like, oh, I'm struggling, wow, let me call the counseling center like that just does not happen.
Speaker 2:And you say the same with other counseling. Most people think, oh, it's right there, just do it. No, they don't. They usually will suffer in silence for way too long until somebody sees them and says you need to get help and most likely the parent is the best one. You know faculty is good, ra is good, but a parent to just reach out and, like I said, if you notice anything change, that's a green light. You know like people look for signs, like they're all going to look, like all the lists of red flags, but you know you're a student. If there's any reason for you to be concerned, say something.
Speaker 1:That's such a great point because I think as a, as a parent, you you don't always consider that you know, you know that student, you know your child well, and if you see anything out of the ordinary that I think that's very wise to point that out to parents is you don't wait for there to be some red flag on a sheet that somebody's written of. You know they're talking this way or they're saying this. You know your student, you know your kid.
Speaker 2:Oh, I can't tell you how many times a parent has said something and just made an observation that they just looks different. And it wasn't on any red flag, but that was like, oh, like that is. That was the point.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And because the parents they have that history you know, they literally know this student longer than anyone else. That's right. You know so they're the expert on their students. But sometimes they lose sight of that and they refer to flags or they defer to us and it's like okay, yeah, we're professionals, but you know the students so. But again, most students will not come to us counseling centers unless somebody nudges them. Yeah, that makes sense they just don't pick up the phone and be like I'm depressed.
Speaker 1:Right, they're not. They're not interpersonally aware, they don't. I don't think. I think most of us don't carry around a real deep sense of self-awareness, and I think that age group is still developing that sense of self-awareness, and so you're right, yeah, and they need a nudge.
Speaker 2:Well, not just like, go to Cal, they need a nudge, someone to be like hey, sit them down and be like we're really concerned about you. Here's a resource on the campus Nice, so that is the biggest advice I could teach a student. Yeah, I mean, a lot of students and parents want to know how to help out, because we do. We're seeing this other schools Like I was a president of our state association. There's some talk of all of our state association doing this. I give you new flash for the big 12 schools. We're working on a suicide prevention collaborative. All together, I'm on the national board. So this is changing, you know. And so a lot of people who you know. It's like well, how can I help? Yeah, if you go in and, like you know, the ebook's a good way, you know it goes through that. But it's also a model of other schools, you know, and we've done stuff to help other schools too.
Speaker 1:I think that's neat because it's you're right, it's. This is a, this is a national, international issue, especially after the pandemic and the trauma, the global trauma we've all experienced there, and mental health has become, I think it's deteriorated. It was deteriorating prior to the pandemic. To me, I would say I think it's deteriorating. It was deteriorating prior to the pandemic. To me, I would say I think that the pandemic lit that on fire.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and there's no stats that say it'll go back. Everything is saying it's going to accelerate. And mental health is not a political issue. People talk about the vice vice. I talked to Republicans. I thought they didn't get everyone's interested in this. There's not someone who said, well, we don't care about the mental health of college students. No one says that. So yeah, it's an issue that I think everyone can get on board with.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for coming by and for keeping us updated on all of this. Thank you for the partnership and thank you for setting up the bridge that helps the programs and universities cross into helping college students have a better shot at a deeper sense of mental health.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would say just a thank you to you because you know, obviously, you know we, we have partnerships and we vet them and I tell people in the vendors because so many times people look at colleges as dollar signs, like, oh, money, money, money. And the one thing we say is, like, you know, we really look at someone who wants to be a part of the team, you know who really gets it and really has a heart for it. Because so many people like, oh, I have a program and you know they don't understand. Again, your program is heightened, but it wasn't designed for colleges. You know we used designed for colleges.
Speaker 2:You know we as a college, so the fact that you were so your heart was just so passionate. Like, this is about the kids, this is about the thing. And, yeah, we raised the money for donors, but yeah, I mean then the vendors out there is like don't, like, it's always cause I get solicited all the time and it's always discouraging when people talk about, oh, you know, the money, the value line, and and it's just like it's not about that. You know, like you said, you really could make a huge impact on people's lives and, like you know, like we did things different, like you know. You know, like even our risk manager, it was like a new idea.
Speaker 2:I freaked everyone out, you know, and it was like oh, we have to do something and we asked you to make a combination of it. It's like it's a, it's a different world out there.
Speaker 1:It was, and I think every attorney there probably has a little more gray hair as a result of this program.
Speaker 2:Oh, you can imagine the first time they caught the vision, yeah. When I first brought it up, I thought I gave my attorney a heart attack or something.
Speaker 2:But again, it was just some mice that they saw as a liability. Now they see it as a protective factor. That's right, you know. And so for all the vendors who want to work at schools, you know so many times they they over promise, you know, yeah, and they say they do this and you know, you know. And they're like, oh, I think you're struggling and you know, and like I get funny when people like, oh, you must have a wait list, like we don't have a wait list because we have all these programs, you know, or, and they go and they think they can do all this and save, and it's like, no, it's a team effort. You know, like no one thing can, you know, solve everything, you know, right, and so just the idea that you have a heart working with us, and like we don't want to feel like we're not business partners. You're like you're a part of our team, right, you know.
Speaker 1:And that's what it feels like A clinical partnership. Dollars and cents have to make. The money has to make sense, yeah, but that's not the point. The point is we've, we're we, we want to see college students. So, because our moniker here is celebrating restored freedom and we want to bring that celebration of that restored freedom onto the TCU campus, we personally feel honored to be a part of it. You know, because, like, like you said, there's, there's aspects of this that we we had to flex with and you guys flexed with us, and it is a collaborative team effort because what is healing? Because part of the pandemic was the isolation. Like you said, the surgeon general wrote the book on loneliness, and that's a problem. What have we done? We've built a community. Yeah, like you said, the Surgeon General wrote the book on loneliness, and that's a problem. What have we done? We've built a community. Yeah, exactly, we feel like we're a part of your community and I hope you all feel like you're part of our community.
Speaker 2:And that's what you need, right, and just to have that heart out there, because a lot of schools are still new to them, right, you know, like the ideal of like. They'll say we're a school, we don't do this, and they still think it's a liability. So we're easing the narrative, like, no, this is a protective factor. You do a lot of good, but we're very careful about who we partner with. Yeah, you know, because we really want people with a heart and you have that.
Speaker 3:So If you found value in our discussion and wish to uncover more about the fascinating world of mental wellness, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Stay tuned for our upcoming episodes, where Dr Long will continue to delve into empowering therapies and strategies for mental wellness. Your journey to understanding and embracing mental health is just beginning and we're excited to have you with us every step of the way. Until next time, keep exploring, keep growing and remember to celebrate restored freedom as you uncover it.
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