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Restoration Beyond the Couch
The Beyond the Couch with Dr. Lee Long podcast is intended solely for general informational purposes and does not represent the practice of medicine, therapeutic and psychiatric services, nursing, or other professional health care services. It also does not constitute the provision of medical, therapeutic or psychiatric advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is established. The information on this podcast and any materials linked from it are used at the user's own risk. The content provided through this podcast should not be considered a replacement for professional medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice, diagnosis, or treatment. It is important that users do not ignore or postpone seeking medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice for any health or mental health condition they might have, and should always consult with their health care professionals regarding such conditions.
Restoration Beyond the Couch
Navigating Being Sober-Minded in Relationships and Life
Find Jenn's free guide below!
https://www.sobersis.com/home38426642
In this episode of Restoration Beyond the Couch, Dr. Lee Long sits down with Jenn Kautsch, also known as Sober Sis, for part two of their conversation on embracing a sober mindset. This time, they explore how sobriety impacts relationships, social dynamics, and daily life, offering practical strategies for maintaining clarity and balance.
Whether you're navigating your own sober journey or simply seeking a healthier approach to alcohol, this episode provides valuable insights and real-world applications for intentional living.
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch. I'm Dr Lee Long and today I'm joined once again by Jen Couch, also known as Sobersis. In our last conversation we explored the sober curious movement and the mindset shift behind alcohol-free living free living. In this episode, we're taking it a step further. We're diving into the practical everyday applications of a sober lifestyle, from social settings to self-care strategies. Jen shares insights on navigating life with a clear mind and a renewed purpose. Whether you're exploring sobriety or simply looking for a healthier approach to alpha-carotene, this episode is full of wisdom and real-world takeaways. Your path to mental wellness starts here. Welcome, jen. I'm so glad you're here with us today. We've had you on before and, gosh, what a response that we got from you being here talking about sober mindedness and all that you've created and all that you've pulled together and so wonderfully and vulnerably laid out there as sober sis. So again, thank you for that and welcome back to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, really thank you for having me back and look forward to kind of diving in, yeah, this whole sober minded viewpoint, which is so different than I think, what people think it is think it is.
Speaker 1:I think that's really well stated, because I think people look at that and think, oh, that means alcohol free or substance free, but you have taken it to, I think, a new height, a new, um, new places, and I'm eager for you to talk to us about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I always say being sober minded is looking alive in your own life. It's being awake, alert, aware and present in your own life, and so it's more about what you are doing, what you're focusing on, rather than just abstinence or what you're not doing, which is what you typically think of when you hear the word sober.
Speaker 1:So I think sober minded, like you said, just brings it all in, and it's more about what you're adding in versus just what you're taking away scarcity mindset, right, that somehow somebody's taking things from us, because when it's interesting, when you think about the concept of communication and when we talk about something and we're telling somebody you're doing this wrong, the very thing that happens is that is defense, like somebody gets defensive super quickly. You know you don't ever support me. Yes, I do Right, right, right, as opposed to hey. I could use some support here, which is kind of the concept of what you're talking about. It's this is what I'm adding to my life. Is awareness so bright like sober mindedness, awake, aware, alert and alive? Is that?
Speaker 2:right Awake, alert, aware and present. Just being present, you know like look down where are your feet right now. Well, that's where you are. What's going on there?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, as you've embarked upon this sober-minded trek, how has this? Well, I should back up. Has it changed your relationships, like, has it changed the way that you engage with the people that are?
Speaker 2:close to you. Oh my goodness, yes, yes. This. This journey has been an incredible windy road of um, a lot of personal discovery, growth, and it's all through relationship, everything is through relationship and I will say, since going on this sober-minded I like the word trek that was a good one. Expedition adventure. I love that, it's all of these things, because, just like I get to tell the women I work with, like, pack up your gear, we're going on an expedition, there's going to be highs and lows, storms that roll in out of nowhere and vistas that will take your breath away, and it is like that, and it is like that in relationships, and so, really, for me, where it all began was the relationship I had with myself.
Speaker 1:That's it, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's where and that's where the ongoing work is probably most deep for me. And then that spills out and overflows into my other relationships. But having my vertical relationship, where I've got my identity in Christ settled in my mind and then can work from that place of belonging and being known and unconditionally loved and accepted and then do the work inside to get to that place, to that place, it's changed everything for me in other relationships. Because again, going back to more aware, more alert to attunement around other people and coming from a place of wholeness and overflow, or at least awareness, when I'm not integrated, when I'm not living wholehearted, I'm also aware of that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how, and I'm assuming cause what you're talking about. I love the word expedition because our adventure, that's my favorite is the adventure of it is because it it this.
Speaker 1:It lays out a visual for me at least and I would imagine for others, of, like you said, there's ups and downs and and we start in an adventure. In my mind, I look at it as climbing a mountain. We start at the base of the mountain and then there's so much that we discover as we keep climbing, trekking up. And I'm curious were there distinct differences at the beginning of this adventure, to say today?
Speaker 2:For sure. First off, I think when I started my adventure I mean, let's just take this analogy all the way, just you know, at base camp, when everyone's packing on their gear, getting their backpacks out, trying to minimize the weight that they're gonna carry for the journey so that they can be lighter on their feet and have, you know, more sustainability to keep on going I think for me, what I realized was there was a lot more I needed to unpack than I realized. I didn't realize that I was literally carrying around these bricks in my backpack that were slowing down my progress and it's never about perfection, it's always about progress. But if you want to make um, you know better time and just have better relationships. I think, for me, just realizing oh man, I'm carrying stuff around that that doesn't serve me anymore, it doesn't serve anyone. In fact, I haven't cleaned out my backpack in a while. So that was that was first step for me was just seeing what was there.
Speaker 1:I love that and I love that we're staying with this analogy.
Speaker 2:This is brilliant.
Speaker 1:I love that because one of the things that I say agnosium is that it starts with an intra personal awareness, like we have to understand who we are first before we can interact in an interpersonal relationship, which is a self plus others type of interaction. And so you, cleaning out your backpack is such a real, a beautiful analogy of I have to realize what's impacting me, what's weighing me down and being more sober minded about that and what that costs me in the in keeping with our analogy, as you said, the timing or the swiftness of which I race up the mountain.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, because it really is. I mean, when you're on a trek or this expedition or this great adventure which you know, think about an adventure. When you first start out, you maybe see the summit, you see where you're wanting to go and what I've learned along this journey in relationships and just sober-minded living all together, where I'm always focusing on my presence, like just being where I am, my presence, like just being where I am. And you know, to get to the summit is not always necessarily well the goal. I mean you've got to. I think direction matters more than speed, so you've got to know where you're going, otherwise you're just going in a circle.
Speaker 1:You're just kind of wandering around so.
Speaker 2:I think it's important to have this ascension mindset of like I want to keep climbing higher, but you've also got to know how to take rest stops. You've got to know how to. You know I always say in just my life, you know, learn how to rest, not quit, and I think that's true also, you know, in relationships with yourself and others is just knowing when to kind of pull back and rest for a minute. And just I think there's so much to just taking snapshot inventories of checking in with others. You've taught me that, you've taught me the importance of checking in with others, and to me that's like you're on the trail head down, you're grinding it out, you got the backpack on. It's good to pull over with your trail mates and just go. How are you doing? Do you need anything? You know, are your, are your socks still dry? You know what's happening? Um, or just checking in with each other in relationships so important.
Speaker 1:I love what you're, what you're laying out there, because I think that not only is it important for us to check in on others, but as we're grinding it out up that trail, it's super important to go where am I in this? Totally, and that then checking in on somebody else is saying, okay, where are you in this, and now where are we as a result, and how do we navigate that? And when we're sober minded, we can have a much greater sense of where we are, to then make space or room for where the other is in it, up that that summit or grinding it up that trail, that I need to be aware of me. It's like you said I need to know where my feet are, that's right.
Speaker 1:And then, as I know where I am, I can start to consider wait, where are you? Like you're my rucking buddy and I need to make sure that I'm not on this ruck all by myself, like, wait, where's my ruck? There you are, like, how are you? Are you okay? Are your socks still dry, like you said? Yeah, so that's a yeah, that's really that's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what as, as you're considering, like, the advice or the wisdom that you impart to these, these amazing women that are reaching out to you, and I'm I'm imagining that that there are some of them that are out there, they're dating, they're there and maybe even now I need to be careful how I say this but maybe they're dating in their relation, in their marriage. I don't mean dating other people, I mean dating their marriage. I don't mean dating other people, I mean dating their spouse. But in that essence of like coming back to a place where, like, they're really trying to explore sober mindedness in this arena of other people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Hopefully that question makes sense. Yeah, it does, Because I can tell you I am almost 30 years married and I am dating my husband, so I do know what you mean and I think it takes. I think that it takes that kind of engagement in the relationship. It is so easy in life to get on autopilot and just cruise through, just cruise control, put the map away and just kind of wander around and I think, truly being engaged all in all present, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of it is where it's at.
Speaker 2:You know, I've learned a lot in these last years, being sober-minded and taking seriously that. You know my words matter, my presence matters and so do other peoples. And I think for a while there I'd minimized my voice, minimized my presence and I was not living sober minded. And whether that was because I was numbed out on a glass of wine in the evenings or something else that took my presence away, it's so much more than what, like you said at the beginning, what it is that takes your presence away. In fact, really, alcohol for me was just a solution, it wasn't really the problem.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that's that's a big part of this journey is realizing that.
Speaker 1:And that is so important because I think that that is so true as it relates to any coping mechanism we use. It's the attempt of a solution. It's not the core of the issue. Therefore, do we spend the time, the awareness, to be sober minded, to come back to ourselves and evaluate hey, what's going on here? So, as people are dating, what's?
Speaker 3:going on here, so as people are dating.
Speaker 1:How does one who wants to be sober minded? How do they go about this? I mean cause most people are going to say let's meet for happy hour. Let's meet for drinks. Oh yeah, let's go to dinner. You want to meet at the bar. So how do you, how do you walk these ladies through navigating this?
Speaker 2:For sure, and I do work with a lot of single ladies and, you know, divorce ladies that are getting back out there and in our very alcohol centric culture it is a let's meet for drinks society culture and I think what people are really saying when they say let's meet for drinks is let's connect, let's connect, let's get together, and pretty much evening time for adults that is usually centered around alcohol. It's just part of our society and so I think, knowing that ahead of time and being able to be like proactive and say I would love to connect and then give some other options or head to the bar, it could be very telling for the person that you're interested in to just see some of not not to judge them in any way, shape or form Right, but just out of curiosity you do, you let them, do them and and see what that feels like.
Speaker 1:How do you I think that's great how do you coach? How do you coach these ladies through like, okay, I'm going to go to the bar because I feel strong enough, let's say to not, you know, tip a balance into a place that I don't want to be. In other words, I'm not going to. You know, order a bunch of drinks that I'll regret tomorrow.
Speaker 1:So I feel confident in that, and so I go. How do they? How do you coach them through? Or do you coach them through how to navigate the wait? Why aren't you drinking? Well, don't you want? What do you?
Speaker 2:say and I love the practicality angle you're going here because I think that's what people wanna know is what do I say, what do I do? And that is one of my resources. I do have a free guide out there for women to help them navigate happy hours, wine o'clock and whatnot. So I know you'll put those in the show notes, but I do think that there are three Ps that I absolutely love talking about, and these are easy to remember. So if you're driving and listening, you can actually kind of file these away in your in your mind for moments, just like you're talking about Lee, where you're at the bar. You're going to a girl's night or a wedding or whatever, and you don't want to, you don't want to drink, you want to stay in your sober mind, literally. And what do you do? Well, the first step is pre decide literally.
Speaker 1:And what do you do? Well, the first step is pre-decide. Okay, pause. That's brilliant, because when you get in there, you're toast man. You are If you don't know what you don't know, yeah. That was brilliant.
Speaker 2:So yeah, first step is pre-decide. You cannot decide once you get there, if you're at all on the fence. Just know this. Your maybe means yes. Your maybe means yes because the current is so strong. And if you have been in what I call the detox to retox loop, where you're just in a cycle of mindful by day doing all the right things, working out, got green juice going, you're buying all organic, and then in the evenings you're like, and I think I'll kind of take the edge off from the day or celebrate all my job well done, it's going to be really easy to go to that as a default. Your brain's actually wired to do that if you do it on repetition. So if you've got a repetition of drinking in a social setting and you go to a social setting without pre-deciding before you get there, consider it just.
Speaker 2:I mean, we talked earlier about this adventure and this expedition consider it very steep. It's a very steep climb to walk into a situation like that, having not pre-decided. I love that. So that's the first one. The second P is pre-plan. So, once you've pre-decided, I work with a lot of women who are like, yeah, I'm deciding, but then I don't know what to do. Yes, and this is where the practical part of what I love talking about comes in. Pre-planning is taking that decision and then executing it in a way where you know what to say, you know what to order. I always at first now I don't even think twice about it, because I'm just good a lot of times with my water- I don't even care, Because it's become your loop right.
Speaker 3:It has become my loop.
Speaker 1:It's your muscle, through practice Right.
Speaker 2:Just only through practice, not because you know well and you can't unknow what you know. And now I've known more about the science behind alcohol, so I feel more empowered.
Speaker 1:But and there's and I'm going to start to sidetrack us here for just a half second yeah, but there's also a neurological pathway that you're, that you're burning. That's a really good pathway. Yeah, for example, I'm in this. I work out with a group of people. There's a new person in our workout group. He is an older gentleman who is not accustomed to working out and he's not accustomed to these movements, and so for him it's like doing a movement in an abbreviated way, over and over and over again, and then he's up with the big boys and he's doing the movement like he's been doing it forever. But he had to neurologically grow accustomed to what that movement was. And from what you're saying, as you're describing it, it is a movement and it's a. It's a, it's like a, it's a neurological, it's a behavior, and so it's this place of pre-planning and knowing I'm good with my water and I don't even have to think about it it's become habitual, you're habituating it.
Speaker 2:Exactly. This is great. Keep going, yeah, yeah. So when you're new to this and you don't have that habit loop yet reformed and you know it can be nerve wracking, it's really that awkward moment when you sit down at a table and everyone's making their drink orders and you're like it's part of the pre-planning.
Speaker 2:That is part of the pre-planning is knowing what you're going to say when you walk in there. Because when you're, when you're, when you are sitting at a table where pretty much everyone unless you know you're pregnant or sick or whatever, unless there's like an extenuating circumstance which is changing. I am joking somewhat, but not really it really is changing.
Speaker 1:It is changing.
Speaker 2:And I've been at tables where I'm the only non-drinker on purpose, by choice, right, and it is by choice and I think that's also very empowering I can have what I want to drink when I want to drink it. I just choose to be alcohol-free because it feels better to me, it serves my presence better and my awake and alert being present in my own life. But a lot of the pre-planning is knowing what you're going to say. So, for example, if I were to walk into a party or meet up with someone and everyone's ordering drinks and a waiter or waitress or hostess with the mostest comes up to me and says, hey, jen, can I get you something to drink? I put a big, true smile on my face and I say yes, not no. I say yes, I would love some, and then fill in the blank hey, maybe you just need some water because you've been running around all day and you're just needing to hydrate. Maybe you're thirsty.
Speaker 2:Maybe you have looked ahead and seen if that menu offers mocktails or zero-proof cocktails, I like to call them. So maybe you've done a little bit of recon where you've called ahead. Maybe you've gotten there five minutes early, swung by, talk to the bartender and say, hey, I'm not drinking tonight. You don't have to make this big production About anything. It's really no one's business what you're drinking, right, and you don't have to justify why you're not drinking. But it is okay to take ownership and agency and say I'm not drinking. But it is okay to take ownership and agency and say I'm not drinking tonight. I love saying that, because people don't know that I'm AKA sober sis, or that I'm living an alcohol-free lifestyle or doing this work. They just know I'm not drinking tonight, and so I can say that with complete confidence and say but what else do you have? Or do you have anything on your menu that's alcohol-free?
Speaker 1:I can ask and a lot of times they do. I love that. I have a gluten allergy and so every time most restaurants I shouldn't say every time most restaurants I am going to go look ahead at their menu, because it's the whole place of not being the guy that says, wait, well, I have a gluten allergy and so let's bring attention to that.
Speaker 2:And you're right, it's the exact same thing Totally.
Speaker 1:In that says wait, well, I have a gluten allergy, and so let's bring attention to that. And you're right, it's the exact same thing, Totally In that. It's just yes, I would love something. What do we have here? And it's like do you have a gluten-free menu? Or you know, you've some people are vegan.
Speaker 2:Some people are alcohol free.
Speaker 1:So do you have a favorite drink that you do? You have a favorite go-to?
Speaker 2:well, actually I do okay, because better than water. Better than water, although it is, I shouldn't say better, a more exciting than water absolutely, and this is really easy for most restaurants and bartenders to crank out, because it it is a mineral water sparkling water base. I like topo chico because you know we're here in texas oh yeah, big bubbles baby.
Speaker 2:Wherever you are. Yeah, carbonated. There's something about a carbonated drink that is just really refreshing. So whatever kind of base mineral water, sparkling water, and then it is so easy because most restaurants and bars have cucumbers and for you, ladies out there, you know what I'm talking about when you have cucumbers in your water.
Speaker 2:what do you think of? Like a spa day? Like real refreshing. It's so refreshing to have cucumber in your water and lime. So ask them to muddle cucumber and lime with a Topo Chico and then you can even get super fancy and salt the rim. It's delicious. Wow, it's so good. What it's delicious. Wow, it's so good that that is, doesn't it make? You thirsty right now. Yeah, if y'all could see him. He's literally salivating. He's so thirsty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, this is so okay.
Speaker 2:Try it next time y'all go out.
Speaker 1:I think I might so good and I've never. The cool thing about this and this is what has me totally fired up. Yes, it is the lime. I love lime Me too. Yes, it is the lime and maybe the cucumber. I'm a little on the fence about the cucumber, but I get the fresh part of it. What has me so fired up is I've never considered like sprucing up a Topo Chico in that way.
Speaker 2:Right. I just don't, and I want it in a pretty glass too, you know like it's the whole aesthetic, it's the whole thing, which is, again, I think, why a lot of times people are in this social pattern or this habitual loop. It's the ritual, it's the reward.
Speaker 1:It really is the ritual.
Speaker 2:And there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's awesome to celebrate life that way, whether that's in your own kitchen at five o'clock, I encourage women to still pull out that pretty glass. Just what are you putting in it? Be mindful, be intentional.
Speaker 1:I think that's at the heart of the whole thing. It's being mindful and intentional and you have to understand you to understand the intention Right.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:So these ladies that are out dating and they've chosen this sober-minded lifestyle and that for them means sober-minded from substances, alcohol, any wisdom that you could offer them, and this is not just for ladies guys, too, who have decided that a sober-minded life is something very important to them, that a sober minded life is something very important to them, and they're they're in the dating scene and they get the big questions about it. Like, why are you not drinking? Like do you have an addiction? Like, did you have a problem? What are some of the things that you coach these ladies through? And guys, this, this all can translate for you as well. So, yeah, it's sober sis, but we can also call it the sober bro for now.
Speaker 2:Totally Listen up, bros. No, totally Well, and I do think it is a confidence that comes from within. You've got to know why you're doing what you're doing and go back to your why all the time, all the time. Why do I do the things I do and why do I do the things I don't want to do? Well, a big part of sober-minded living is trying to align by doing the things, that is you do want to do. It's less about what are we taking away, it's what we're adding in, it's what we're gaining.
Speaker 1:Yes, ma'am, we talk all the time around these hallways, here, about living according to your values, and that's exactly what you're saying. It sounds like yeah, and so knowing your, why and I love what you're saying is your why does it need to be negative? Because you had a problem?
Speaker 2:with it Exactly.
Speaker 1:No, because I like. Like you said, I, I enjoy. You didn't quite say it like this, but this is my interpretation of it is, I enjoy myself far more when I am awake, alive and alert. And I know I didn't get all the A's right.
Speaker 2:No, that was good, but it's true. And too, if you think about it, even in a dating scenario, is alcohol really connecting? I would beg to differ. I would say no. When you're using any substance that takes away your presence of mind, alters your mind, literally your brain. You are less there, you are less present. So, if we get together for drinks or my goodness, in the dating world, especially if you really are starting over and and if you're dating your spouse, but if, if you're not bringing all of yourself, your authentic, true, imperfect, messy self, but that part of you which is you know, I get it Many drinkers, I think the numbers are staggering of the number of people that drink out of social anxiety.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Right. So that's a very real thing and I realize that. I mean I think most adults, when they enter a networking event, a party, even you know, even good friends there's still that opportunity for you as a grown up, as an adult, to enter in a room and think to yourself do I belong, do I fit in, do they like me? Do I look okay? Am I making sense? All those things. And I think there's a lot of energies that come in a room or to a, you know, to a tabletop. When you're meeting someone one-on-one, you don't know where that person's coming from or the day they to a, you know, to a tabletop. When you're meeting someone one-on-one, yes, you don't know where that person's coming from or the day they've had or what the tapes that are playing in their mind. So a lot of people subdue all of that by getting that first drink.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the interesting thing about this is people often say to me, you know, in a session they'll say, well, they said to me this thing while they were drunk or they were under the influence, and so that you know, that makes them tell the truth. I'm like actually it doesn't Right. There is this myopic sense of us focusing on the things that we walked into that situation with.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And what if? If we're, if we have social anxiety and to take from what you're describing, what do they think of me? Do I belong here? Am I okay? All of these themes where we're trying, we're assessing our value are really lack thereof. We'll become myopically focused on that and inhibited. Therefore, we're going to be more of that. Meaning not sure we belong and therefore it's that confirmation bias Exactly right.
Speaker 2:And that insecurity is going to play louder, well, and then what happens is alcohol whispers in my ear. You need me. In fact, you wouldn't have been able to even do as well as you did if you didn't have me. In fact, you wouldn't have been able to even do as well as you did if you didn't have me. And then we outsource. It is an outsourcing of our resilience and our confidence, and even some of our identity of. I can't do that without a drink in my hand.
Speaker 2:Right and the crazy, which confirms I'm not enough, I don't belong, unless I go outside of myself to bring something in, and then that starts a whole nother loop.
Speaker 1:And it's a downward spiral.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's going to take you places you don't want to go and take you away from your authentic self in your presence, and I've got to tell you, as a person now that's choosing this alcohol-free lifestyle. I still feel the feels.
Speaker 2:When I walk in a room, my heart races a little bit I can still kind of flutter, and I know this too shall pass very quickly and very shortly that it's a natural part of being human, and if I short-circuit that, if I stop that natural adjustment from happening by altering reality and bending it for just a minute, it's not real, it's not as real I should say. And so I'd rather live in reality, see what I'm dealing with, feel the feels that are very temporary, and then I just feel stronger, like, oh okay, I don't have to have something outside of me to make me feel okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and it's. It's interesting because that's how we build strength, like you're. You're describing is we, we have this exposure to it and you know we think about everybody feels a sense of something. It's not abnormal and I, you know, I and I think I'm attributing this to the right person, but I think Brene Brown, who I think most people know she is, but she, I believe this is her saying yes, you're scared, but scared and excited are really close emotions.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Where they show up in our neurology is very close, so could we be skided.
Speaker 2:Right Like scared and excited, all at the same time.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a really good point is can I just go in and work through these nerves, these jitters and say yeah, I'm actually really excited. You know, if you're sitting down with a new and potentially a potential new, it's saying I'm really excited about meeting them and I hope that they you know, are they enjoy me? I hope that they. But I also want to propose the idea that you're also interviewing them.
Speaker 2:That's right that it's not just a one way thing. It's funny.
Speaker 1:One of my mentors was talking with someone who was applying for a doctoral program and he said to this individual hey, remember, this isn't you going out there trying to make yourself look enticing. This is also you in, uh, interviewing them to make sure they're a good fit. Yeah, and his, his, his advice to this person was be you right out of the gate. Be you right out of the gate because this is a big commitment, just like a partnership.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so you want to make sure you're authentic and you see that they're authentic, because the last thing you want and I'm saying this from a dating position, the last thing that a person wants is to get into a partnership with somebody that they don't fully understand if they're a match for which brings us to a whole other topic of how do I know if I'm a match.
Speaker 1:Well, there's some researchers out there that say you're a match with anyone. What matters is is do you believe that you can put together the bridge that helps one person bridge to another? And that's a whole different conversation. But we're not going to know that if we're not sober minded in the way we walk in as us and that we observe them way we walk in as us and that we observe them.
Speaker 2:Well, there's something really good, really awesome, about being authentic and it being allowed to make mistakes or show up and be a little awkward or a little silly yes, even married all these years. My sweet hubby, craig, and I just had a moment the other night where it was like, wow, yeah, 30 years in, we can still fumble the ball. But it was real. It was 100% unmasked posturing or anything. We just had some awkwardness together at 30 years and we laughed and we celebrated that we still could because we were so present in the moment.
Speaker 1:Thank you for saying that, because I mean, my wife and I haven't been together quite 30 years, but but close, and I I have to say that it's. It is refreshing to know that we still have this opportunity to get to know each other. It's not static and we are going to fumble, we are going to say dumb things. There's times when I do things and I feel a little tinge of embarrassment because she saw me do that or trip over that, or you know, say you know, get my words back, whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:In knowing that those awkward moments still happen, that there's not this fantasy out there, right, that we get to that. Then everything feels nice and good, and it just doesn't happen that way. Yeah, yeah, that's it just doesn't happen that way. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's. There's a joy. There's a joy that comes in being present, fully present, and there's there's just more of of everything. It's like living life in Technicolor.
Speaker 1:That is very well said. It is like living life in Technicolor.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Being present for yourself. Once we understand who we are, what that begins to unlock. I mean, sometimes this may sound silly, but sometimes I feel like there is this I don't know this key that we have of understanding ourselves and learning to communicate from the place of you.
Speaker 2:Your Ness.
Speaker 1:That, yes, that unlocks this ability to have a really cool relationship, and in that it's like I want to go shout it from the mountaintops and show everybody hey, wait, wait, wait, there's a key here. It'll unlock everything for you. It's like. It's like having access to the force. Those of you who are star Wars fans.
Speaker 2:Totally. I mean when you're, when you're comfortable in your own skin, which again is where the work is really done. This is an inside job. It is an inside job Well said, so, when you're real, think about it. I mean my closest comrades, that's what I call my real close friends. That's a John Townsend term from People Fuel great book about relational nutrients and in that he talks about the seven Cs and he talks about having comrades and I would consider my comrades just a small handful of women that are so secure in who they are that it gives me permission to be totally who I am. That's right. There's nothing I can say or do that's going to change who they are for me.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:They're not going to shape shift and they're not going to. They're not going to collapse and crumble. Um, based on anything I'm saying or doing and I can be my silly self, my serious self, I can bring it all and to me those are the friends that I'm like. I don't think there's anything I can say or do that would make you run. Say or do that would make you run, and that's built on our real moments together.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:And I have that with friends who drink alcohol and with friends who don't drink alcohol. Sure Because it's not about the alcohol, because that's not our common bond, it's our presence and how we relate to each other in a present way.
Speaker 1:Yes, because being sober minded isn't about the alcohol outside of you, right, it's about the sober mindedness inside of you yes, yeah, and that's that's good.
Speaker 1:I think that there's. I think that that piece of what you just explained is really important. In all relationships, there are going to be times where you are in an in an environment that is going to erupt something inside of you, where you take a left turn when you're pre-planning, you're pre-deciding, you're pre-planning, you, you wanted to go right, but you took a left. And so, yes, we have to be aware of the fact that there's environments that we have to steer away from, but those environments don't define us. And when we get to a place where we have the strength to pre-plan and pre-pre-prepare this plan, then we have a better footing underneath us. And I just want to throw out an aside, and and I I'm I want to also give you your shot at this too If you make a mistake and you, you turn left when you meant to turn right, there's always an opportunity for you turn always.
Speaker 1:And the biggest piece in my mind is please don't shame yourself, because that's like Fight Club, and if you haven't seen the movie, I'm about to ruin it for you. He's fighting himself the entire time. Don't do that. Be gentle with you Because, like you said, this is an inside job. Be gentle with you because, like you said, this is an inside job. So the harder you are on you, the less likely you are to show up authentic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what we tend to do when we make a mistake or slip up is we first take that slip and we make it a slide. Yeah, I mean, it is like, oh well, never mind, I can't do this. And so it's easy to take something small and let it snowball into something bigger than it really needs to be. What if we looked at a setback as valuable feedback, and setbacks can define you in a I'm going backwards negative way. Valuable feedback is like, oh man, I needed that to move forward, because now I understand more of what I need and what I want. And, to your point, isolation, man.
Speaker 2:That is where shame is like a breeding ground. Yeah, it is, as Brene Brown, to quote her again, talks about how shame in a Petri dish by itself will just metastasize and grow and get worse. But you drop empathy in the shame and it can't survive. And you can't get empathy sometimes from you, can get it from yourself, but if you're at a place where you're really feeling broken down and and you know, flawed and all these things, this is where connection becomes critical. I mean, that's the heart of what I do is bring women out of the shadows, literally and figuratively, their own shadows, their shadow selves, their shadow sides and the actual shadows of hiding their mistake, their slip up, their shame. I did all the things and then I still didn't execute the right plan. At the very end I gave in. And that's where getting empathy from others and identification from others can totally help you course correct in a whole new way. I mean course correction, or the U-turn, is one of the pillars of being able to live a sober-minded life.
Speaker 1:You know, we always say to parents you have to connect before you can correct, and I think that's true for ourselves. We have to connect back to wait. Why am I doing this? What is that? Go back to the why, I'm doing this because I want to show up alive, authentic, awake and aware. And I know, I'm mixing your A's up, it's okay. I'll make you a t-shirt.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:I will wear it.
Speaker 1:But we have to show up in that sense, and the best way for us to do that is to know who we are, and part of knowing who we are is knowing what can I learn from that? Okay, I made a mistake, it's a data point. Now what do I learn, that's all it is, because what I see often is when people make mistakes, they want to get away from them. Right so they, they avoid them, they don't want to talk about it.
Speaker 2:I don't want to look at suppress Right, ignore.
Speaker 1:But when you look at them you can say oh, I see, I got stressed, I was dehydrated, I you know I my plan was to drink one drink and I drank five because I got nervous and I was thirsty and. I just zipped that thing down like it's nobody's business and you know what? I blew through my plan. Okay, well, no shame.
Speaker 2:In fact, in our group we actually we want those shares. We're looking for women to share about their recon, their data points, their vow. It's valuable feedback, not only for the person who feel like you know they slipped and fell, but it's valuable for everybody else in the community around them because we all get it, we all type one, understand there's a common humanity going on here, without question. Where it's like I can have, I would have compassion for you. Why can't I have compassion for myself? And then, when you have this whole atmosphere of compassion and acceptance again not license or like oh, yeah, you do you.
Speaker 2:but we're working with women, who I am, who want to level up, who want to be their best self, and so it's all for one, one for all, in that way, and yeah, it's like okay, I mean, if you're running a marathon, you're not going to fall down on mile 17 because you tripped over a rock or shoelace, came untied or whatever happens in a marathon that would make someone literally fall down. You're not going to go back to the starting line. There's nobody there. That's right. The race isn't going that way. Nobody's race is going that way. That would be like to me, a day one, like a racing, the 17 miles that you ran in a marathon to go back to the starting line. It's like someone trying to practice a new lifestyle and going back to a day one because they messed up on day 68 or six years or whatever it is. You didn't lose all those days or all those miles that you ran or were on this track expedition adventure. They're all still there. So just use it as a data point and keep going.
Speaker 2:That's exactly growing. I mean that's. That's what it's all about.
Speaker 1:That's right. I often say you're it's. Life is like a bike race. You're going to fall, and when you? Do expect it almost like you do expect it.
Speaker 3:It's like.
Speaker 1:It's like mountain bikers, it's not if I'm going to. If I'm going to crash, it's when I. And how do we minimize it? Yeah Right, and so there's.
Speaker 1:There's a place for us to be mindful even about that and it's funny that you use the marathon analogy. I was thinking as you were describing this you know, I I used to be an avid runner and I don't like to fall down. I don't know anybody who does, but I especially don't don't. And I was running along on this sidewalk and my toe grazed the side like a lip on the sidewalk and the concrete and I just went face first. I didn't have time to get my arms up and literally fell straight on my cheek and I thought I'm not going to stop running.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get up, I'm going to dust off and I'm going to jog back. And as I was jogging back, I was like why did I fall? Oh, there was a, there was a, a, a, a raised part of the sidewalk that I just didn't notice.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:So you know what I started doing, and this is maybe a little extreme and maybe some people will think it's silly I started running on the side of the road instead of the sidewalk. I know, I know there's cars there, but that's what I felt comfortable with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so it was a. It was a. It was a navigation of understanding. If I'm running on a sidewalk that has a lot of of cracks and elevation changes that happen really fast, then my solution was not to quit running, it was to just find a different surface to run on. Yeah, you adapted, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2:To what you needed to do to enjoy the run. Yes, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I do see that with our community, with women who realize wait a minute. First off, who am I running with? Right, if I fall down and there's someone there to help me pick up, you know, stand up. That's a lot different than running by yourself in the dark with a headlamp.
Speaker 1:Yes, and somebody who's going to call me the next morning and say how are? You feeling You're ready to get back out there? Let's keep going. Are we going to meet at our normal time? That's the beauty of a community and that's the thing that I think is so important that we you know. This is why I so appreciate you being here today is because here we are talking about sober mindedness as it relates to dating and relationships and how we navigate all of this together. And where do you start? You start with you.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Awake, alive, alert and awesome for your adventure. There's another A.
Speaker 2:That's right Awake, alert, aware and present in your own life.
Speaker 1:There it is, I love that one For your big adventure.
Speaker 2:For the adventure.
Speaker 1:And I just I so appreciate you being here again and talking us through your sober-minded adventure and just sharing that with the world. It's such a blessing, such a blessing of what you're sharing, such a blessing to know that this, that you as such a wonderful resource out here for so many women, just thank you, Thank you for taking that vulnerable step, Thank you for offering that to to your tribe, to our tribe, to our listeners, Like it is so meaningful, so impactful and it's so wonderful to have a trustworthy source to know where we're starting is with ourselves on the sober minded journey, awake, alive, alert, aware at big adventure and present. So please tell our listeners where they can find you.
Speaker 2:Sure, well, they can go to my hub, which is SoberSiscom, and this is big news. Sobersis, we just moved into the nonprofit space, so now we've got an ability to extend our reach to more and more women. So there are ways that, if sober-minded living is something that excites you but the actual challenge or struggle with alcohol is not your thing, but you want to get on board Helping women get out of that detox retox loop or get more confidence or get to these tools. That's our initiative. That's what we're trying to do is get my free guide in the hands of one million women by 2026. I love that.
Speaker 2:So I'm inviting women in the tribe, outside the tribe anyone listening? This is actually a movement, and so I invite more to join us because it is making a difference.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is Awesome. All right, yeah, thank you so much, jen.
Speaker 2:You're welcome.
Speaker 3:If you found value in our discussion and Awesome, all right. Thank you so much, jen. You're welcome. Your journey to understanding and embracing mental health is just beginning and we're excited to have you with us every step of the way. Until next time, keep exploring, keep growing and remember to celebrate restored freedom as you uncover it.
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