Anonymous: I Want Love…So Why Do I Keep Running From It?

This episode is different.

Instead of talking about the WAIT framework, you will hear it in action through a real, unscripted conversation with an anonymous guest.

This is the first of several episodes this season where Dr. Lee Long will sit down with anonymous guests and walk through real life situations they are navigating using the WAIT method in real time. Most people do not struggle with understanding concepts. They struggle with applying them in the moments that matter.

What unfolds in this conversation is something many people quietly struggle with. Wanting love, connection, and a future with someone while also feeling the urge to pull away, shut down, or disappear when things start to get real.

As the conversation continues, deeper patterns begin to surface. Fear of losing yourself. Fear of being too much. The internal conflict between knowing you are worthy of love and still protecting yourself from being hurt.

Through it all, one question anchors the entire conversation. Where am I in this?

You will hear how learning to locate yourself, what you think, feel, believe, and experience, can shift the way you show up in relationships without losing who you are.

As you listen, notice what comes up for you. Not just in the story being shared, but in your own, because even if the situation is different, the patterns are often the same.

The WAIT, Let's Talk About That with Dr. Lee Long podcast is intended solely for general informational purposes and does not represent the practice of medicine, therapeutic and psychiatric services, nursing, or other professional health care services. It also does not constitute the provision of medical, therapeutic or psychiatric advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is established. The information on this podcast and any materials linked from it are used at the user's own risk. The content provided through this podcast should not be considered a replacement for professional medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice, diagnosis, or treatment. It is important that users do not ignore or postpone seeking medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice for any health or mental health condition they might have, and should always consult with their health care professionals regarding such conditions.

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Transcript

Why We Believe Others Too Easily

SPEAKER_01 0:02

In all the years that I've been doing this, the theme that I see is we believe other people far too often without saying, wait, does that resonate? Is that actually true in my own mind and my own psyche in my own world?

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Taking the moment, taking the moment to listen first to your own self.

Welcome And The Wait Framework

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Right. Hi, I'm Dr. Lee Long, and I'm here with my co-host, Lila Pond, and this is Wait. Let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Gosh, it's great to be here because today, this is a real unscripted style therapy session using the Wait framework. Now, the guest is anonymous for privacy and for the conversation that's happening to be in real time.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yeah, it's in real time because you know, most people don't struggle with the ideas of this concept. They struggle in real moments. And weight is meant to be used in real situations, not just understood intellectually.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

I love that because hearing it applied will help people see themselves more clearly and will hopefully help you as you listen to implement it in your own life.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

And as a reminder, my book, Wait, Where Am I in This comes out May 6th, 2026 and dives deeper into the weight concepts that you're hearing about in this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

So we would both like to encourage you as you listen to notice what comes up for you, not just for them. And as an extra challenge, please try to stay away from assumptions or judgment or opinions and just listen and please be present with us.

Disclaimer And Consent

SPEAKER_01 2:05

That's a great word. Here we go. Okay, before we begin, a quick disclaimer that this conversation is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Although I am a licensed professional counselor in Texas, this podcast is not therapy, does not create a counselor-client relationship, and is not medical or mental health advice. By participating, our guest understands that this recording is public and consents to us editing and publishing this conversation. Do you confirm?

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Okay. Well, welcome.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Hi. We have tissues.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Ooh, let me actually get them.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

This podcast is to basically to help people understand the big question is where am I in this? And this is this moment, this situation where I find myself right now. Yeah. And so the hope is that walking through this with people that it will demonstrate what that question really means.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

When you hear it, it's kind of it like sits in the body. It like lands.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Tell me we really easily. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Like where am I in this?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

It sits because it can be taken in so many different contexts and perspectives in so many different situations at every moment in life. Where am I in this? Whether that's a wrong coffee order or relationship.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

In every single context. And it really allows you to kind of tune in with what emotion is coming up from a bird's eye view.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

At least it does for me. That's what it feels in my body.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Love that.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Yeah.

Wanting A Family And Fearing Romance

SPEAKER_01 3:55

So did you bring a situation or a struggle or an issue today?

SPEAKER_02 4:00

I did. It's interesting because something that you had said to me when we first met has stuck with me this past year. And when you had asked me to bring something to the table, I had started making comments about how, like, no, I don't want kids. I don't want my freedom taken away from me. Uh, I don't want to be responsible for another human being. I can barely be responsible for myself. Um, even at the age that I am, I'm 36. And you just kind of looked at me and you said, you know, when that baby comes out and that oxytocin starts filling your body, none of that matters anymore. And I did exactly what I'm doing right now. It's like tearing up, and you gave me this look and said, it looks to me like you do want a family. And ever since then, I was like, dang it. And it's stuck with me over the past year. Um, and I have finally made the decision that I do want a family. And it's interesting because the child part doesn't scare me. It's the relationship with someone else that terrifies me.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

And I let that fear um override the absolute want that I've wanted my entire life that I've lied to myself about.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Like I'll date people and I will put it out there first, like, yeah, I'm great with friends with benefits. Let's do that.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

So there's no commitment.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

So there's no commitment. So I can avoid it all.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Um. And then if I end up getting attached or wanting more, I disappear.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Disappear in the sense of I just pull away, or disappear in what sense? Emotionally, physically, all of the above?

SPEAKER_02 6:11

I would say all of the above. Okay. Um it's gotten better and it's it's gotten better because of who, depending on the person that I'm talking to. Okay. The last person I dated, he was very um, I guess more understanding and actually called me out on my bulk.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

And asking the questions and what are you doing? Why are you so afraid of everything?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

So basically looking for you.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Mm-hmm. Yeah. When I look back into my twenties, it was the other way around. I dated a lot of avoidant people.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

And was always like, wait, what happened? And now it's the other way around. I've swung to the other side.

All Or Nothing Attachment Patterns

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Where do you feel like you are in that swing? Like, where where are you in that?

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Hiding. From It's easier to hide than it is to be hurt on the deepest levels. The absolute deepest level. Okay. I've gone through that once, and it was that feeling of I'm gonna die. This hurt so bad, like I feel like I'm gonna die.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

So it felt super consuming.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yeah. Like my whole life revolved around that man.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Did you feel like with your life revolving around him, where were you?

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Nowhere to be found. I was within his world.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Ah Would it be safe for me to say then that in your mind that relationships are either consuming of you to where you disappear, or you're walled off saying, I'm not gonna give you any of me.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Yeah, it's all or nothing.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

And most of my life is like that. How you do one thing is how you do everything.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

So it has seeped into all nooks and crevices of you. Okay. Because what I think I hear you saying is I don't want to lose myself.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Yeah. It feels a little bit like that. And also I don't want to lose myself, and I don't want there to be the option of getting hurt. That there's a possibility of that. I'd rather just be like, oh no, never mind. I'd rather not have or I'd rather not um there be a risk.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

So I just won't take it at all.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Mm-hmm.

Risking A Little With Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 9:05

And because in your mind, where you are in the risk, is that it would be too devastating. Have you ever considered the thought of what it would be like to only risk a little bit? Like when you go to Vegas and you have like$1,000.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

I don't go to Vegas.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Fair. Fair. Hypothetically. If we were to go to Vegas and you had$1,000 and you said, I'm not gonna lose, I'm not gonna go beyond the thousand dollars. Do you walk up to the roulette table and say$1,000 on red?

SPEAKER_02 9:46

No.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Do you go to the nickel slots?

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Possibly. Because they also come with free drinks.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Right. There is benefit, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Do you, and and my analogy is going to fall apart at some point here, and maybe it already has, but it's that space. There's this space, though, of deciding where's my limit. Where am I? In other words, it's an all or nothing, is what I'm understanding you to say. And that all or nothing kind of sets up a place for you that says, I'm either putting my thousand dollars on the table and I'm going red, and it's gonna be one spin of that little white ball. And if I hit, it hits. And if it doubles, it doubles. But if I lose, I lose everything.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Yeah, that sounds like my life. Especially in dating.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Okay. In that, what I'm hearing is that I lose myself in dating.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Would it be fair to say, though, that the greatest gift you have to give somebody is you?

SPEAKER_03 10:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

But in that same breath, would it be safe to say that the greatest gift you have for you is you.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

And so giving away the farm, where's your gift?

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Yeah. At that point it's gone.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

We've lost our thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

And it it's far more valuable than that, but we've lost everything we allocated for it. Fair.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

So and so would it make sense to stair step into something in such a way that I don't lose me in any of this? I maintain me and I share me with you, but I don't ever give how do I say this? It's not give all of me to you, but I don't give me to you in such a way that I lose me. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 11:54

It does. And then the thought process that was coming up as you were speaking was those emotions and those feelings that come through, though.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Are so consuming.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

And even though I know that's what I'm supposed to do, um, I spend more time fighting with myself on what I'm supposed to do.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

So then that becomes like it's like I'm losing myself within myself.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Exactly. Does that make sense? Makes perfect sense. That's exactly it.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Yeah. That's where I end up being in all of that.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

And that makes me pull away.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

That makes sense. I I would pull away too.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

And it's this feeling of I have worked so hard to regulate and heal and become this person I am today that I don't want to risk anything at all. I'd rather just not be in Vegas.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Fair.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

When it's the one thing I want most in life.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

And the reason I don't want to be in Vegas is because my greatest fear in me is winning it all, and I don't know what to do with it. Ah.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Do you know who Marianne Williamson is?

unknown 13:15

No.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

She's an author, and one of her most famous quotes is I'm paraphrasing, but we are basically we're not afraid of losing or anything like that. Our greatest fear is our own power. And in this context, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

How do you make sense of that?

SPEAKER_02 13:38

It feels so overwhelming. And I have realized that I don't do well with overwhelming. I think it's because I grew up in so much chaos, in so much overwhelm.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

And now I'm on the other side, and it's I won't risk going back to that.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

So would it be safe for me to understand that as I grew up in an environment that I did not feel like I had control?

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

And I don't want to ever feel out of control.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Okay. So where am I in this? If I'm at if if if I'm you, then I'm protective. I don't I don't want to exercise this because if I exercise it, God only knows what will happen.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

But the fear is I will be consumed.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Is that consumed? And if I get what I want, I won't know what to do with it. There's no control.

unknown 14:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

I will ruin it all.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Ah. I can't trust myself with it.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

How would you ruin it in your mind?

SPEAKER_02 14:50

By showing this part of me.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

The emotional part?

SPEAKER_02 14:55

The emotional part. The there can be days out of the month because I am a woman where I don't want to get out of bed. And that might be a past thing. Because just the memory flashing of a partner being like, what is the matter with you? The shaming and not allowing. When I do date, I get praised so much for you're so incredible. Like you have this beautiful personality, and you're artistic and all of these things, and blah blah blah. And all I can think of at the back of my head is like, yeah, if you only saw the other side, I wouldn't be that great to you.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

So you feel like you're hiding parts of you.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Because if I show those parts, it's over.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

And you that's your fear, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Okay. And then where would you be in the midst of that?

SPEAKER_02 16:02

The vision of like me in a ball on the floor, like in my last breakup. I don't ever want that to happen again.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

That pain is what you're wanting to keep away.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

That if you show all of you to someone and it's not held tenderly, carefully, then it leaves you feeling too vulnerable and rejected.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Okay. So I want to protect myself if I'm speaking as if I'm you, I want to protect myself from vulnerability because I vulnerability in the past has equaled rejection.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Yes. Like I said before we sat down, that was interesting that this mirrors that the vulnerability scares a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

But where are you in that?

SPEAKER_02 16:59

I am not scared of my own vulnerability.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

I'm scared of showing it to other people and not not necessarily other people, but a partner. I'm terrified of showing it to a partner.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Because what would that mean in your mind?

SPEAKER_02 17:17

They don't know what to do with me.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

And where would you be in that moment? They don't know what to do with me. Where am I?

SPEAKER_02 17:24

I will go and handle this myself and come back when I'm nice and shiny and new.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

So if they don't know what to do with you, do you assume that that's something wrong with you?

Hiding Emotions And Fear Of Rejection

SPEAKER_02 17:37

Hmm. Maybe too muchness. Not that it's wrong with me, but that sense of you won't be able to handle all of it. I can show you, I could probably show you a little bit of it. Because I'm human and it happens. And I usually will give a warning of look, I cry about everything, every emotion. I'm crying and I'm okay with that and I'm comfortable with that. But anything beyond that, like where it can get very expressive, and I allow myself to do that with girlfriends and in therapy sessions and retreats and all of that, and in my work, but with a partner, the mindset comes in. I know you won't be able to handle all of that. And I want to be able to bring that into a relationship.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Is it safe to say that you are pre-deciding for him?

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Prior to knowing if it's true or not?

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Okay. Where are you in that? The predecision?

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Controlling.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Controlling the outcome, controlling the situation so that nothing bad happens to me.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Yet at the same time, there's tears in these moments about I don't want to be without a partner.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

To say that in a positive way is I want a partner. I want a family. I want this cohesive unit.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

But I'm going to pre-decide for you, you can't handle me.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

And I have met a couple of people, especially this last year. I've tried to move slower, and there have been a couple of gentlemen that have shown that, like, hey, everything's fine. I can handle what you're putting down. And then there are circumstances that end up coming up that this can no longer move forward. For example, oh, I found out you're married. Great.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

That small detail.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

That's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

And I have now realized um something that is coming up recently is I can tell when they are because I'm like, hmm, you're already trained. You're too kind to me.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

That's an interesting statement. You're already trained.

unknown 20:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Because it's almost like you're partially reading my mind here, is that I think that in every relationship, I call it calibrating. That a person has to calibrate to another person.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

We don't come pre-loaded per se. Parts of us are, but we're not pre-loaded to match perfectly with X person.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

We learn that person. And in the learning process, we understand, oh, I see where the true most authentic version of me can fit with the most true authentic version of you, at least the most true and authentic version I'm willing to share and they're willing to share.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

That we calibrate to understand. Like I have a good friend who was an engineer and he likes everything. He says often, like, yes, I think I have OCD. He doesn't have OCD. He just likes things very particular. Particular, crisp, and clean. And I don't care either way. I mean, I like order. But if we're working on a project together, I know that his preference is going to be that everything kind of lines up and the way that the tools work are going to be in a certain fashion. Like, I can oblige that. That doesn't take anything from me. And I can do that. That doesn't cause me to come outside of myself in such a way that I feel like I hey, hey, that you're asking too much of me. Does that make sense? Yes. And vice versa. He knows that I like things to come. Of flow easy, that I don't like things super rigid, that it's more of a of a process than it is an exactitude. And there's that give back in our friendship in that way. And we've been friends for probably 20 years. And so it's like we've learned each other in that. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 22:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

So that I don't ever lose my sense of who I am. And I hope I've never asked him, but I hope he doesn't lose his sense of who he is. But we honor those parts of each other that we know are core to us.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Yes. Through all of that, the words that kept sticking were this doesn't take anything from me.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

For me to do that, it doesn't take anything from me.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Right.

Calibrating In Healthy Relationships

SPEAKER_02 22:49

And I have a friendship with a male that he's gay, so it doesn't really mean anything on the other end. He calibrates a little bit better than a straight male would. But we've been friends for 20 years next year. And that was the relationship I thought of. When we need something from each other, we're very honest and communicative. I can't do that right now. Or what do you need? So I guess my question within that now is how do I begin to cultivate that in a romantic sense? Because when you begin to like someone, you want to just whatever you need, or at least for me.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Okay. Now let's find you in that. Yeah. Why do I want to give? And the question is, where am I in that? Why do I want to give them whatever they want? Where am I?

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Looking for that acceptance. Like, if I give you this, you're not going to go anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Do I believe I'm enough?

SPEAKER_02 23:54

I believe I'm enough. And sometimes too much. But if I give you enough, it'll be a fair trade, and you're not going to go anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

But what's interesting is with your friend, you're saying there's not a chance that it's going to be romantic. We're Plutonic friends. That's it. Yeah. I don't have that sense of being enough for you.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

I don't feel like I have to overgive or appease you. But notice the shift. When something else is on the line there, then I feel like I have to now perform. Am I am I understanding you right?

SPEAKER_02 24:39

When it's a deeper connection.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

But deeper, is this friend of yours? Is is he a deep connection?

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Absolutely. I used to say all the time that no one will ever love me as much as he does.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Could I push a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

I will never allow anyone to love me as deep as he does.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Because I are you afraid, where are you? Are you afraid that he's going to hurt you?

SPEAKER_02 25:17

The friend, or no.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Were you in the beginning?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

I don't think so. It was just easy.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Okay. And in that easy, where were you?

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Enjoying our relationship. Enjoying this friend, that commonalities and honesty and all of the things.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

So your question a moment ago was how do I how do I step into a romantic relationship and not lose myself? How do I do this without stepping out of me?

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Fair?

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

How did you do it with him?

SPEAKER_02 25:56

It's a really long time ago. I was also a very different person.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

I was 18 when we met.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

I know that my previous serious relationship has had such an impact on the way I've moved forward in dating. We haven't been together for four years. And there are still times where things come up, and I'm like, I flash back to that relationship.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Like in what way?

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Like, for example, I was talking to someone that I am talking to, dating, I don't know, all the labels, all the weird things. Um talking to a person that I want to see naked. And he knows about this previous relationship. And he had said something about how incredible I am. And it was instant sadness because what he praised me for, my ex-partner. I was like, yeah, he hated that about me. Why wasn't I enough for him? Like, why couldn't he just love me? I'm so easy to love. I'm so easy to love.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Are you convinced of that? Because I hear two sides to this that I'm too much, so I have to hide or or conceal parts of me. And then I hear, but I'm so easy to love. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

And so it's like two different parts.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Uh-huh. Which one do you believe?

SPEAKER_02 27:36

I swing more towards I'm so easy to love.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

And I would be an amazing and incredible partner. I am an amazing and incredible partner. Okay. And then the part of me that was so hurt by that relationship is like, yeah, but look what happened the last time.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Is it fair to say that there is a belief, like your his opinion and your belief are colliding?

SPEAKER_02 28:09

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

And his opinion is getting far more play in your mindset than your belief.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

So even after his exit, where am I in this? I believe him.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

I still think he hangs the moon. It's hard to think badly of someone when they're not a bad person.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Oh, I agree. And I don't, I certainly don't want to encourage you to think badly of him. Not at all.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

It's hard to break up with someone and disconnect when they're a good person.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

You know, usually during breakups, it's like, oh, this person did this and did this is why we're not together. He is such an incredible human being.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Frankly, I think that's the healthiest way to break up.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Why do we have to rip up somebody else to say, hey, we didn't fit?

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

You're a good human. I'm a good human.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Our values are different.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Yeah, we just didn't calibrate well.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

And just because we didn't calibrate well doesn't make either one of us bad, wrong, terrible, all these bad things. Because I was gonna say the scary thing about it is, but the sh strange thing about it is that if we rip up somebody else, we're the ones who carry around the rippings, the hate, the the disdain, the how dare they. We still carry them in our soul.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

And so it's the it's the truly letting go and saying, I release you. I release me from that too.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

You were a great human. We didn't fit.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

I'm not releasing myself from it. That's the problem. Within that, I find this part of myself that because he's such an incredible human, and despite all the those other little things, uh, treated me incredible. It was the first time that I had ever been treated that way.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Okay.

Letting Go Without Making Villains

SPEAKER_02 30:17

It was the first time I had ever experienced being treated lovingly in a relationship. Um, so there is this part within me that's like, because of all these good things, how come? And that wants to keep trying and trying and trying. Well, hang on by that, like one phone call every six months. How are you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

And where are you in that?

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Not necessarily that one particularly.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

But the experience, the same feelings.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

But if I'm still holding on to what I thought I could have, but didn't, where is there room for the next person?

SPEAKER_02 31:07

There isn't. You get what's left over, and that's not fair.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

To who?

SPEAKER_02 31:13

To either of us.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Certainly not myself.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Because you know the whole the the saying gosh, the disrespect to me, right? Come on now.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

My gosh.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Say more about that.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

I would never the first thought that came to mind was like, I would never want myself to be treated that way. And then finding you. Yeah. And then I think about my girlfriends, and I'm like, I would never want them to treat themselves that way. That was an aha landing moment for sure. Love that. Like, oh my God, the absolute disrespect that I am doing to myself. Mm-hmm.

unknown 32:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

This is coming home to you. That's what that looks like. It's like, wait a second. I am disrespecting me.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

In the sense that, you know, it's like the old saying, a square peg and a round hole. Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

This is like an oval peg and a round hole. It's like we're beating the fool out of that old oval peg, trying to make it fit because my gosh, it should.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

But it's doing damage.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Just slightly.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Right? But we keep thinking, oh, well, if I just shave a little here and change a little there, then it'll fit.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

It's like, but what about honoring the fact that you're oval and not round?

SPEAKER_02 32:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

And instead of criticizing oval, we embrace it.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

I would never try to squeeze myself into jeans two sizes too small.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Then don't squeeze yourself into a relationship three sizes too small.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Yeah. Wow, that was a really good moment. That's hitting really hard.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Yeah.

Stop Living By Someone Else’s Words

SPEAKER_02 33:10

And as many times as you can hear it from other people, it's when it lands in your own body and you speak it back. Is when it's like you kind of have to hear it from your own self.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

And it's coming home to you.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Mm-hmm. All too often we try to live outside of ourselves because he said this and I believe him. And it's like, wait, if he said this, do I believe that? Is that true?

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Do you believe that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Right. I don't know that all I I genuinely believe, and in all the years that I've been doing this, the theme that I see is we've we believe other people far too often without saying, wait, does that resonate? Does that is that actually true in my own mind and my own psyche and my own world?

SPEAKER_02 34:04

Taking the moment, taking the moment to listen first to your own self.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Right. And not demanding that somebody else change. You know, several people have said to me, don't you think that what you're trying to do with people is, aren't you building a bunch of narcissists?

SPEAKER_02 34:25

I'm like, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Yeah, I don't think you know what narcissism is.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Respectfully.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

The true definition.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Right. True definition of narcissism is this idea that I don't know who I am. I have a deep wound. So I put on a mask and I ask you to tell me how great I am. I ask you to confirm in me. I'm asking the environment to make me feel a certain way. It's like, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

No. Think if we did this even politically.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

That's what I was thinking about.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Okay, tell me more.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

That the thought that came up for me was when you had said, um, you know, you're looking outside of yourself, you're thinking that this man, the his opinion matters of of you without checking in. I heard instantly, yeah, because I think so highly of him. In politics, so many people think so highly of these people. So whatever they say, it's an internalized, oh yeah, that's that is me. That is what I believe too. Right. Because of this pedestaling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

I like the word figure, political figure. Because they've left humanity in my mind.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Right. And it's like this this man in your life became a figure. And I respect him so much that what he says must be true.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Now, what he says can be true. Does that resonate with me?

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Is it my truth?

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Right. Now, what I mean by that is if he says, now hang with me on this, okay?

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Because this might be, uh, this might be.

unknown 36:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

If he says, hey, you're too much, can that be true to him, but not true to you?

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

And that's where we have to differ. You're like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

But that I'm too much doesn't have to live inside your soul, right? It doesn't have to take up residence inside of you.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

It could simply be that, okay, that is too much for him.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Not for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Now, if you slow down and you let that sink into you and say, wait, is this feeling, is this uh demonstration of a feeling, however we want to couch it, is that too much for me? Sometimes the answer could be yes, but often the answer will be no. And that calibrating, look, I know I'm a I'm an intense person.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

I say the same thing about myself.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

And one of the things that I appreciate about my wife is that she understands and appreciates my intensity. Now, there are times when my intensity is too great. And it's the hey, in my presence, I I can't. I need you to dial that back. Otherwise, I need to take a step back.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

In my presence. Not necessarily that you are too intense, but currently for me. Correct. In my presence.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Correct. It's what I can tolerate, it's what my nervous system can tolerate in the moment.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

But I know that that's not a rejection. Now, I have a choice. I either can turn the volume down a little bit, so to speak, or I can step away.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

But it's honoring that in-between space between my wife and I, saying, I see you too.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Yeah. And language matters. Language absolutely matters within all of that.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

I think it does. And I think it's, I think that the from my perspective, the reason it does is because there has to be an understanding.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Because it would be very easy for my wife to look at me and say, You're too much. You need to tone it down.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

And in that language, I could assume that and say, you're right. Or buzz off. Screw you. You're not enough. I'm too much, you're not enough.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Now I would never say that to my wife because she's amazing. And there's that space of it being, but but if I do, if you're too much and you're not enough, who's it all about? It's externalizing everything.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Pushing everything outwards.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Right. You need to change.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Boundaries, they're for me. They're not for you. My boundaries are for me. And I'm the one who has to make sure that I honor them. I don't get to demand. I mean, I can try, but it's not gonna get you far. Not gonna work well. I don't get to demand that you you have to do this. You have mm-mm.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

No, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

There's a saying that's um you'll get everything you want and you get to decide if you actually want it. And that's what kind of the thought process um within all of that.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

So going back to that landing strip, how do you then one not disrespect you and two honor you?

SPEAKER_02 39:54

The constant check-in, the constant check-in to my own body, my own intuition, my own beliefs and needs.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Mm-hmm. So can I make a suggestion?

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

I want to encourage you to ask the question where am I in this? In this moment, in this situation, in this whatever, but in this moment, what do I think? What do I feel? What do I believe? And what am I experiencing?

SPEAKER_02 40:25

I'm gonna need you to text those to me so that I can have them like on demand and just constantly. You got it? Whenever a moment comes up, hang on, I gotta look at my questions really quickly.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

But I guess in the in the in the end of it all, it's where am I in this?

SPEAKER_02 40:41

Yeah. Where am I in this?

SPEAKER_01 40:43

In this moment. Where am I in this? What's going on with me? Wait, am I feeling sad? Am I not? Am I excited? Am I holding back? Okay, if I'm holding back, what am I holding back? Oh, it's not time yet to release all of that. Okay. So I'm appropriately holding back, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

But if it's a moment where there's growing intimacy, it's like, is this intimacy growing at a pace that feels acceptable, understandable, comfortable to me? And if not, it's hey, I see this is growing, and this is just where I am. And I hope you'll be patient with me.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

I'm really trying to sort through things that I don't want to put in your lap to fix because they're not yours.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Exactly. They're not yours. I do have a question about all of the hormones that end up surging through our body kind of override that sometimes. Um, with being an intense person, I also love the intensity and that's addicting. It can be. Yeah. For the most part, I would imagine that stopping and asking, where am I in this kind of slows the nervous system and slows everything down. 100%. So that you can tune in. Cause even though right now in this moment, I can conceptualize this and understand all of this and take it all in. But when that man is in front of you and the hearts are flying out of your head like a cartoon, and all you want to be is like intertwined in that moment with this other person. Um, you don't necessarily hear the where am I in this? That may not be the best decision.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Right. Two things. One, if you make this a practice of living where you are, you will know going into something like this, that's not a good idea for me. So I will make sure that I know where the break is.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Because if I'm only living on the accelerator of intensity, then I will pull an MM and lose myself.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

You know what I mean? Yeah. I will lose myself in this moment. And then the collision of when I find myself, that's painful.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Got you. That makes sense. That's where the pain is.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Is because we keep we come and we crash into ourselves. It's like Dave Matthews has this song crash into you. Love Dave Matthews.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

It's one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

And when you think about that, a crash comes with consequences. And do is that what I want to do? Because I don't want to lose myself in this moment. Because then what am I offering?

SPEAKER_03 43:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

And what am I maintaining? And the parts of me that are left behind after the crash, it's like, well, what do I do with all that? Where am I? In parts all over the street.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Having to do work all over again.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Scar after scar after scar. Scar.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

That makes sense.

Intensity, Addiction, And Slowing Down

SPEAKER_01 44:01

So I do think that it is in moments preceding those moments you know that are going to be really like hearts are going to be flying. And it's like, well, put on a bonnet. Because you don't, again, it's like, I don't want to lose myself in this moment.

SPEAKER_03 44:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

It's like again, I'm going to take us back to our beginning analogy. If we're in Vegas, and I said you go with$1,000 to spend, and that's your limit. Don't bring a card that has unlimited swipes on it because the other end isn't unlimited. You don't want to get caught up in moments where you lose you.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yeah. Man, it's so addicting though. It feels so good.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

But if you look at one of the best drugs on earth is the human body, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

It happens within our human body. And the thing about that is that in addiction, what am I looking for? Everything outside of me.

SPEAKER_02 45:05

The connection.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Is it connection?

SPEAKER_02 45:11

The addiction is not connection, but it's what you're searching for. Seeking, right.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

But it's like walking around with a plug in, you know, saying, I I, you know, let's connect, let's connect. And you put it, you put the plug in something that is more wattage than the appliance can handle, or that it's calibrated for. Let me say it that way.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

I really love that word being used in all of this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Because if I overwatt something that's not calibrated for that, what happens to that that appliance?

SPEAKER_03 45:48

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Blows up. What happens inside of me? I'm not calibrated yet for this. I need to calibrate differently. This is a 210, and I'm this is set for 115. That's a difference.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

I need to be aware of where I am. I need to know what the appliance of me, not to reduce us to appliance, but I need to be aware of where am I? What's my wattage?

SPEAKER_02 46:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 46:21

Absolutely. So, like you were saying, making it a practice, I'd imagine, in every single thing. Just start doing it on every single thing.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Yes, yes. And I don't want you to feel, I don't want anyone to feel overwhelmed by it.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

But it is uh as you're going along and it comes to mind, where am I in this? After my workout, I always, I always, I often go on a walk with some of the folks in the class. And there's always, often a sunset or sunrise. And I think to myself, where am I in this moment? I'm wanting to soak in that light. It's so beautiful. It's so amazing. I want to be present in this moment. And that is a it's a calibrating. Before I lift a heavy weight, where am I in this? Okay, I'm locked, I'm loaded, and I'm ready to go. I don't want to hurt myself. I'm getting older, you know. But I think it's in those moments that we ask ourselves when we're doing stuff, yeah, where am I in this? I'm kind of feeling mindless right now. I was sitting at home the other day and I found myself just grabbing my phone and I was like, wait, where are you? Bored? Okay. Sit in your boredom. Boredom's okay. It's where creativity comes from.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

And so I told myself, when I pick up my phone, I'm going to say, I'm picking up my phone to read that text. So that I don't pick up the phone and deal with all the other things that are like, why did I pick up my phone again?

unknown 47:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

It's being mindful of what I'm doing and where I am in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

It's like the next level of awareness. Like when you start learning awareness, that's what it feels like for me, is the next level.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

And it's the level of awareness of you. And that's the goal. So we don't lose us and take in all this lake water.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

About what we should be, or how it should be this, or how it should and should and should and should, but we know this is me.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

That makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

Thank you for coming.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

This has been enriching for me.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

Thank you for your knowledge. So many like gold nuggets and things that have landed just within this right now. I love that. So I'm super excited to bring it into my world, but also to share it with my friends that are we all kind of have the same conversations. I love that. So I'm like, guess what I learned? I'm really excited. I love that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

What you heard is what slowing down can actually sound like. The goal wasn't to fix the guest, but to build an awareness and a clarity.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

Notice that even if your situation is different, the patterns often the same. Let me say that again. Even if your situation is different, our patterns are typically the same. So notice what parts of the conversation felt familiar to you.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Even ask yourself what part of me was activated while I was listening to that? How did I identify with the story that was being walked through? And the help, the assistance is a better word, of getting the speaker, the client, to stay with herself.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

How gentle that was and how powerful.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Yes, and I want to make sure that you consider the word activated doesn't always mean negative. What did it activate positively? What did you take from this? How do you know yourself differently or better?

SPEAKER_00 50:23

And it sounded like as things wrapped up between the two of you, Lee, that she was ready to see herself differently.

SPEAKER_03 50:32

Yes.

Host Reflection And Key Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 50:33

In interactions where those old patterns, that old pattern loop gets activated. That's right. And I do think it's important for us to remember as we listen to this session between the two of you that this wasn't about her being selfish. In actuality, her coming to herself helped her to be more giving of herself. I'm so glad that it was brought out. If it's okay, I'd love to mention, you know, we spend a lot of time being taught me last, you first. We can't really love completely if we don't love ourselves in a complete and whole way. Right. Just for who we are. And then we can give somebody a more vulnerable love.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

That's right. A more whole-hearted love.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Yes. You know, that's one of Brene Brown's uh shout out to Brene, our Texas sister here, is that um she found that true connection only happens in what she calls the whole-hearted, and they do it through vulnerability. And that's research-based. That's not just philosophy, that's reality.

SPEAKER_03 52:00

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

And I think staying with reality, which is what I heard you do throughout the session, and it helped her stay with reality instead of what she was imagining to be true about herself. Right. Old defense mechanisms may have worked when we were younger or may work when we don't understand our own value and are secure with that, they don't work anymore, especially when we're trying to relate to someone else.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

That's right. Well said. You know, in this interview, you probably heard me say things about where I am in moments, where I am in the sun, the sunrise. And I hope that you take from that that it is a self-location. It's not to the exclusion of other people. It's definitely not the to the exclusion of my values. The values actually drive the location. It's always starts with values. And my values are centered on my faith in God. Other people who don't have a faith in a higher power in God, in a greater religion, they still have values. Those values are the highest, that's your highest point, and that's how you orient yourself. Then it comes to you. You have to organize yourself as you see your values. And then that organization of your values into you, then it goes to other people. And so as I walk in the mornings with the sunrise, it's not that I'm organizing myself outside of my values. It's quite the opposite. It's that I'm organizing myself and understanding be here in this moment, enjoying what has been created for my eyes. That all too often we push ourselves to be outside of the moment. And when I'm talking about lifting and where am I in that moment, that moment is about understanding how I am showing up, values and all.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

And Lee, that is so important for us to remember that if all we do is focus on the external and want the environment to change to make us better on the inside, then we've missed what working out does for you. It makes you stronger, your infrastructure of your body stronger. So you show up from a place of security. And that's if if we were talking about muscles and lifting, that's muscle integrity. And that carries us through life. Well, knowing yourself and where you are in a locate, that location of an interaction with somebody, that's a value and that's a practice you carry through life. It's an infrastructure issue, if you will. I'm searching for a word here, but you know, it's that infrastructure strength that says, I can sit with you when you have an a different opinion or idea and it without judgment. That's right. And it's so less chaotic. It doesn't mean everybody's gonna agree with me, but it certainly cuts down on hate. It certainly cuts down on rigidity. And where we have rigidity, we're gonna break. And that means break in our relationships. We break in our relationship with ourselves, even when we're rigid.

SPEAKER_03 55:21

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 55:22

And it's so wonderful. It doesn't mean we're so open that we're um free love, peace, love, dove kind of thing. That's not what I'm getting at. I'm I'm getting at the fact that we can join and be close to someone else when we're close to our own understanding of ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

It frees us up to be able to do that.

Values, Self-Control, And Closing CTA

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Even when we're as mad as a wet hand, as they say. That's right. We can stay with ourselves and not lose our marbles and lose the whole point of confronting whatever the controversy is or the conversation is calling for. I think that's important. You know, one last thing. I appreciate the words of scripture, ancient writings that bring us truth that help us live in a more secure way. And if you look at a place where it talks about fruit of the spirit, what the very last one that was written was the word self-control. And to me, that is what where am I helps me operate out of a place of self-control. That's right. Now there's a list of eight other items: love, joy, peace, patience, yeah, um, goodness, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, all those things. And I think the thing that holds all that together is self-control. So where am I in this? I gotta start with some self-control.

SPEAKER_01 56:52

Well, if you enjoyed what you heard today, subscribe and share with someone who may need to benefit from this. And one more reminder that my book that's available for pre-order on Amazon and it's coming out on May 6th.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

Please, you'll enjoy it and be challenged by it, and you'll probably read it twice. See you next time.