Anonymous: I Don’t Know How to Stop Feeling Invisible in My Marriage

In today’s conversation, an anonymous guest opens up about nearly forty-five years of feeling unheard in her marriage.

What begins as a conversation about communication and frustration slowly reveals something much deeper. The exhaustion of trying to be understood by someone who may not be able to meet you where you are. The anger that builds when your needs feel dismissed. And the quiet grief of feeling unseen by the person closest to you.

As the conversation unfolds, deeper questions begin to emerge. What happens when you spend years looking to other people for the care and consideration you long for? How do you stop losing yourself trying to get someone else to finally hear you? And what does it actually mean to care for yourself without becoming selfish?

Through it all, one question anchors the conversation. Where am I in this?

You will hear how learning to locate yourself emotionally, instead of focusing only on changing the people around you, can begin to shift patterns of resentment, powerlessness, and emotional disconnection.

As you listen, notice what comes up for you in your own story, because even if the circumstances are different, the patterns are often the same.

If you’ve ever felt invisible in a relationship, struggled with resentment, or found yourself looking outward for the love and validation you deeply need, this conversation will likely resonate in a very real way.

Get Dr. Lee Long’s brand new book WAIT, Where Am I in This here: https://tinyurl.com/mtfm6bh8

The WAIT, Let's Talk About That with Dr. Lee Long podcast is intended solely for general informational purposes and does not represent the practice of medicine, therapeutic and psychiatric services, nursing, or other professional health care services. It also does not constitute the provision of medical, therapeutic or psychiatric advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is established. The information on this podcast and any materials linked from it are used at the user's own risk. The content provided through this podcast should not be considered a replacement for professional medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice, diagnosis, or treatment. It is important that users do not ignore or postpone seeking medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice for any health or mental health condition they might have, and should always consult with their health care professionals regarding such conditions.

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Transcript

Welcome To Wait And The Ground Rules

0:01

I mean, obviously, I love this person. I've been married to him 45 years. We have two children. But also, how do I not lose me in the process? I don't want to be lost, Lee. I don't want to be lost. I don't blame you. Welcome to Wait. Let's talk about that. A podcast where you don't just hear about therapy, you're hearing it happen. I'm Dr. Lee Long, and joining me again is my co-host, Lila Pond, licensed professional counselor and supervisor here at Restoration Counseling. Hey everyone, what makes this podcast different is simple. No script, no rehearsal. You're sitting in on a real interview using the wait method with a real person in real time. And today's guest is a woman who's been married for many, many years and is sitting with some real frustration in her marriage. She's here to work through it honestly and to let you watch the wait method come to life as we go. Marriage has a way of holding up a mirror. So as you listen, don't just listen for her story. Listen for yours. Settle in, listen for the moment, something shifts because it always does. Before we begin, a quick disclaimer. This conversation is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Although I'm a licensed professional counselor in Texas, this podcast is not therapy. It does not create a counselor-client relationship, nor is this medical or mental health advice. By participating, our guest understands this recording is public and consents to us editing and publishing the conversation. Do you confirm? I do. Awesome. Well, thank you for being here. The premise of this is that I've written a book and these principles I've noticed as I see them working out in my practice, they're easy to understand, but they're not always easy to implement. So we thought that getting together with some people who were willing to walk through some sort of uh issue or concern that they had in their life, yeah, that uh we could walk through these principles and try them out in real time. I like it. So I like it. Did you come with a concern or an issue for us to

Forty-Five Years Of Not Feeling Heard

2:33

sort out? Well, it's sort of been an issue in my marriage. I've been married almost 45 years. Wow. I know in November will be 45 years. It's hard to believe. There's always been a problem with communication. Okay. And lately, I would say in the last 15 years, since my husband has has developed a hearing disorder, it even compounds the issue because I feel like I'm not being heard. Um, like literally. And then also when we try to have a discussion about an issue or a problem, he's not a great communicator. He's not, I don't feel like he actually talks to me about what he's feeling. And I don't feel like he hears me when I try to tell him what I'm feeling. Okay. So does that make sense? Or am I rambling? No, no, no. That makes perfect sense. You're definitely not rambling. It sounds like to me that this hearing issue has created or has it exacerbated an issue. It's exacerbated. Yes, it has. An issue that's been there, you feel like where when you guys communicate, you don't feel heard. That's it. At this point, it's literal. But prior to the hearing issue, it was also just not feeling like there was okay. And then I I couldn't determine in the beginnings of his hearing loss, I couldn't determine if he was actually physically not hearing me or that he just was choosing to not hear me. And so that was my frustration. Yeah. And I would be angry all the time. I was angry all the time inside. And and sometimes I would lash out at him, and I didn't like that behavior from me. Yeah. Because I'm not, I felt like he was one of the only people that I didn't like to be around, that I didn't, I couldn't communicate with. So I was living with him 24-7, but I couldn't, the frustration was mounting. And it and to be quite honest, it still is there. It still mounts after 45 years. And I'm trying, I want to be kinder, I want to be more grace-filled as far as, you know, acknowledging this hearing deficit that he has. But I also I feel lost in it. I'm kind of, I'm not heard. I think I tell I did tell a therapist one time. I

The Well Metaphor And Loneliness

5:10

described it, I illustrated it. The feeling that I had was like being in the bottom of a well. And and it was dark and I was alone, and I was looking up for help to get me out. Either someone drop a rope or someone just communicate with me and tell me that you know I'm here. Yeah. I'm here, I'm here. And I don't know, that illustration just sort of came to me during that session, and I was like, that's exactly what that feels like. Yeah. Like being deep in a well, yep, dark, asking for help. Yep. Saying, somebody throw me a rope. That's it. But you feel like nobody can hear you. That's it. Yeah. And either they were choosing to, or they couldn't hear me. Yeah. So it either way, it was a lost cause. It was, you know, so yeah, that's my thing that I deal with on a daily basis. And I I'm trying to sort out, okay, so how do I deal with this? How do I, you know, be kind. I mean, obviously, I have a lot, I love this person. I've been married to him 45 years. I we have two children. But also, how do I not lose me in the process? I don't want to be lost, Lee. I don't want to be lost. I don't blame you. I don't blame you. First of all, I'm sorry that that's been your experience. Thank you. Because that's a lonely place to be. Yeah, thanks. And I appreciate the sentiment of I don't want to be lost. And I think the beginning of that is, where are you? Mm-hmm. You saying, I'm in a well and I'm calling out and I'm asking for help. I guess I would ask, when you say I get angry and I don't want to get angry, what do you feel like your anger is about? Not being heard and not being able to carry on, even just uh it doesn't have to be a conflict that or a disagreement, just a normal like a conversation about a TV show or uh like so daily communication. Daily communication. Just about anything. About anything, about anything. Okay, or I find myself, and it it's kind of funny because I find myself asking a question of him or to him, and he doesn't respond. So I answer myself. And I'm like, okay, am I am I going crazy? Is this part of is this what I'm doomed to be doing now for the rest of my life with him? Am I, you know, do I have to ask and answer my own question? Yeah. No, that's that's that's certainly one way to cope with it, right? I guess. Yeah. But that that anger that you feel is it, it sounds like to me it's externalized in the sense that I'm angry that you don't hear me. That's it. Is that fair to say that? That is. That is. And it sounds like, and I don't know if I'm right, so I'm asking, it sounds like the thing that would be more comforting would be is if he heard you. Yes. And so it's the anger is toward, I want something from you. Yes, but I don't know how to make you give that to me. That's right. Just does that fit? Um, because sometimes his behaviors, for instance, if I ask him to please stop doing some irritating behavior. You know, like tapping a f oh go ahead. Like, yeah, like, okay, here's a great example. We

When Small Behaviors Feel Personal

8:54

were at a function last night, and he was sitting at a ta dinner table next to me, and it's a table of six people, and we're having a conversation, and his right knee, he was jiggling his knee up and down, up and down, up and down, bouncing his knee, bouncing his knee. And I the first time I gently put my hand on his knee to remind him, stop doing that. Please, stop it. You're shaking the table, you're shaking within 30 seconds. He was doing it again. So I gently put my hand a second time on his knee, and he just looked at me like, no, I'm not going to. And he proceeded to continue to do it. So And you felt what? Um, well, I was angry. Okay. I was very angry. Angry, why? Because he's dismissing me. Uh he was dismissing what I needed from him. I what I want to, it was clearly annoying, yeah, irritating. Okay. And so then after the second time and then the third time, I felt like, well, he's doing this on purpose to annoy me. And that's a pattern in our relationship as well. Yeah. He does many things that I feel like are kind of at you. Yes. And so I think if I could cope with that better by maybe just ignoring the behavior, maybe walking away from it. Yeah. Well, let's go back to it because you were angry. Yeah. Angry because you he basically kind of overlooked what you were saying. Yeah. And you felt what? Dismissed. Okay. Dismissed. Okay. Like, I don't care what you want. I don't care if this annoys you. It it was a lack of caring for me. For you. And how did you internalize that? How did you interpret that? That he really doesn't care about me. So it was about him. Yeah. Um well, I was feeling the I was feeling the results of that. Sure. Sure. I was feeling, yeah. So it was about him, I guess. Yeah. It was about what he was doing or or not doing. He wasn't stopping a behavior that was clearly at my request, at my simple request. Like I wasn't angry at first. Right. And so if someone asks me to stop doing something, I will feel like, okay, I'm sorry. You know, I'm sorry that that annoyed you and I won't do it. Mm-hmm. But you're giving care outside of you, right? Yes. And you're saying, I don't feel like the care comes toward me. That's it. Okay. That's exactly right. And so it sounds to me like a lot of your frustrations are largely around, I can't control the environment around me.

Control Versus Influence In Marriage

11:54

Him being part of it. I can't make a request. Yeah. And I or I can make a request. I make a request and the request I perceive gets ignored. Or the reality is the request gets ignored. Yes. Is that fair? That is, but I don't like that control. I don't like the word control. Tell me why. I don't know because I don't feel like I'm a controlling person. Okay. And just because I I make a request from someone who I think loves me and cares about me that they're not doing that or they won't stop doing a behavior that is clearly causing me some discomfort or distress. Right. I don't like feeling angry. Yeah. I don't like feeling irritated. Sure. I don't like lashing out. I don't like that's the bottom line, but I don't, I don't know about that word controlly. Because when you hear control, you think that it's a global controlling. Yes. Okay. But you just describe that if somebody makes a request of you, you will control your behavior. Yeah. I I guess that's yeah. Yeah. I guess so. I guess that's would it be what what what would you want to change the word to? Hmm. I'd have to think about that. I'd have to think about that's reasonable. Would it be influence? Does that feel better? Yeah, that feels that feels less harsh. Okay. And so if we look at the things that you're pointing out, is that I don't feel like I have influence over this environment, which leaves you feeling depends on the situation. Depends on what. Yeah, it depends on the situation. Depends on the circumstance, on the the event, what's happening, what's going on. Okay. What would you say to the nervous knee shake? Stop it. Stop it. It's irritating. Right. Okay. So I feel irritated. Uh-huh. And I want to have influence over my environment to stop that irritation. And the environment, your husband, said no. Well, I want him to I want him to I guess I what I'm wanting from him is I want him to display to me, to show me that he cares enough about me to stop doing whatever it is that is irritating me and causing me to be angry. Okay. And if he's unwilling to meet you there, what does that leave you with? It leaves me with a whole lot of anger. Right. And so I just I can choose to ignore it. But if you ignored it, where would that leave you? Just being angry. Right. And feeling like, oh, here we go again. And so hopeless. So like he's not gonna change. This is not gonna, this won't change. He clearly, or maybe even, and I have thought at times, he doesn't care about me. He doesn't really love me. Which leaves you feeling what? Um at this stage after 45 years, yeah, I'm kind of numb to it. Because when you experience that sort of behavior over and over and over and over, you finally, you finally grow either a scar or a callus. Yeah. And you get tough. It sounds like though that that scar or that callus is but it still hurts. Oh, clearly. It clearly does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because when you're describing this, it's out here. I perceive, if I'm speaking as if I'm you, you're saying I perceive that I'm maybe he doesn't care. Maybe I don't ma because it's it's all the things out here, fair? Yeah. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, if I go back to your well analogy, it's like I don't feel cared for. That's it. And when I don't feel cared for, that's it. What do I do with that? That's it. And early on in our marriage, when we we were in counseling, we've been in counseling off and on, and uh, one of the counselors said that a woman in a marriage, God's plan for or how women are wired, God's the way he's made women, is that we need to feel loved and cared for and respected. And when any of those components are missing, it's hurtful. It's uh it causes

Love Respect And Old Wounds

16:40

a lot of distress. Oh, yeah. And uh For sure. So I've guess I've kind of, you know, through 45 years and and some other incidents, things that have happened in our marriage that, you know, almost caused it to end in divorce. Um, there were some examples there that it clearly, clearly I felt rejected, unloved, and disrespected. Yeah. So it seems like in these examples, it's sort of drawing out that sense of I don't feel cared for. It's not just the shaking of the knee. Yeah. It's that kind of harkens back for you to a earlier time when you didn't feel that. Yes. Yes. And my question would be where are you in that? Like, what do you mean, where am I? Great question. You're saying, I feel like I'm in a well and nobody's coming to be with me, to help me, to care for me, nothing. And I hesitate to use the well analogy again, but in a different way. That's a good one. It's almost like you're going to a dry well where it's like, what if he's not capable? What if he's not willing? I mean, I don't I have come to that conclusion. And once again, another analogy that uh counselor gave to me as sort of a visual, and I'm a very visual person, and I learn by exam uh examples or pictures or I said, Why, why does this keep happening? Why do I feel constantly not cared for by him? Why? And he looked at me and he said, Well, what if he's not capable? And I said, What do you mean he's not capable? And he said, Well, let me give you this example. What if he was a paraplegic in a wheelchair and he was paralyzed from the waist down, and you expected him to get up and walk across the room. Would that be a real I mean, would that be a valid request that you could? And I said, Well, of course not. And he said, Well, there's a picture for you. Right. But it sounds like that still weaves through and that thread is is up here in your mind. Oh, yeah. I can intellectually say, okay, he's not capable. Yeah. I can formulate something that says to me, he may not be capable. Yeah. But where are you in that? I have learned to get my need to be to feel loved and cared for through different relationships in my life. Okay. Through my friends, my my workout friends, my tennis team friends. I'm a very outgoing person. I love relationships, I love people. Yeah. I love relationships. I love to get to know people. And I get satisfaction from those relationships outside of my marriage. Yeah. And so now I've just come to the resolve that I, you know, I'm going to live out the rest of my life with this man. Okay. Loving him as a human being. And I want to learn to be kinder and gentler towards him and let go of this anger. So everything that you're talking about is decently externalized. When you and we're going to beat this uh example into the ground here of the shaking of the knee, that nervous, that nervous shaking. It's like you asked for something, you don't get it. Right. You feel overlooked. Yep. How do you find yourself in that moment? Because what I hear you describing is you're looking to him saying, Could you see me? Could you stop doing this? Yes. And it's in some ways, it's like, is he capable of seeing you? I don't know. Because sometimes that's about him. Yeah, yes, it is. And so if he's not capable, and we say, I don't know what's going on there. And we don't, we don't try to read minds. We don't try to, you know, see what is he, like kind of read the tea leaves of what does he mean by all of this? But where are you in that? Like, what am I gonna do? Well, first of all, it's like, what do you feel? And you said overlooked. Yes. Are you overlooking you? I don't think so. Okay. I I mean, I don't know what that means. I love that question. I love that statement. I really don't know what that means. How can I over you mean like am I caring for myself? Right. You've asked a question. Yep. You've said, or you've put your hand on his niece and said, Yeah, please stop. Yeah. And like you said, he can't, and we're gonna go figurative here. He can't figuratively hear you. Okay. And I'm gonna ask again, but he figuratively doesn't hear you. Mm-hmm. How do you take care of you? Uh I guess I could move to another chair and get away from him. Okay. I guess I could I guess I could do that. You could, but but let me ask you this I could get away from him. Yeah. But I'm wondering if we could put it inside of you and say, I could move chairs and then I wouldn't feel the shaking and I could be calm. That's right. As opposed to I'm gonna get away from him. Yeah. Where the focus is so external still. Yeah. And it's truly bringing it internal to say, what do I need right now? I just need him to stop doing that. But that's about him. I need him to what do you need? You mean why am I asking him to stop shaking? I understand why you're asking, because it's annoying you. It is. And it's shaking the table. Okay. There are other people there. Okay. So you're worried about the other people. So I'm worried about the other people. Okay. And um But does it make sense that that's a little bit living outside of you? Because I don't know if the did the were the other people saying, hey buddy, stop shaking the table. Um I did see one woman look at me uh and kind of give me a this little cute little smile. Like, I understand, I understand completely why you're doing that. Because I mean, he was one person removed from her, and she could see it too. And I could, or maybe I was imagining it that she was maybe annoyed by it as well. Yeah. But yeah, I do, you know, Lee, honestly, I do have a problem with worrying about what people think, what other people think. And so I want him to stop it so that, you know, I and I that is about control now that you now that I'm vocal uh verbalizing it, vocalizing it. Yeah, it is. So I'm controlling, I'm trying to control how other people feel. I'm trying to control Well I I don't I'm not trying to rescue you from this sentiment, but I don't know, I don't know that it's control in the sense that you're maybe pushing back against, but is it perhaps care? I'm trying to offer care to these, I don't want them to feel what I'm doing. No, I no, I I do I believe with all my heart that God has wired me that way. Which

Giving Others What You Crave

24:10

way I am a very caring, loving, loyal person. That's that's my that's one of my gifts. Yeah. I think people are attracted to me for that reason. Okay. You know, I'll have strangers in grocery stores come up to me and in the produce section and I'll start hearing their life story. Yeah just from just from me acknowledging them as a person. Right. I'm very, very intentional about doing that. Right. To strangers even. And so when you're doing that, what are you wanting to give them? I want to show them their value, that they are valuable, that they are loved and cared for by a stranger. And I guess that's what I don't feel. That's what I was just about to ask. Yeah. Do you feel loved and cared for? I d I don't. Do you feel like like in other words, are you giving what you hope to get? That's right. And I don't want to make it black and No, that's right. That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, I'm I'm tearing up a little bit because that's that's exactly that's exactly what I'm hoping to get. Yeah. Or have been hoping to get. Yeah. So do you feel like you offer that to you? Because your description is you're you freely give this to other people. Yeah. Freely and beautifully. Yeah. No, you know what? No, you're you're right. I don't give that to myself. I do not. In fact, I love to play tennis. I play tennis four or five times a week. And I am on several teams, and I play double, so I always have a partner. Yeah. And I am at times in matches, I am so hard on myself that if I miss a ball or I make a mistake, I will verbally demean myself. And I've had a couple of partners that have said, Don't you talk to my friend that way. Oh, I like that. And one is my sweet Australian friend. And she says it in that beautiful Australian accent. She says, do not talk to my friend that way. And that was very, that was really sobering for me. Yeah. But I do feel like I have, yeah. I don't love me like I should. And I don't want to, I don't want to press it into a global space of where you don't love you at all. Yeah. It's just in these moments that you feel like you're not receiving love from him. Yeah. Or maybe it's not even love, just consideration. Just consideration. And not feeling that consideration. It's like, you know, I'm asking you, where are you in that? It's like, do you offer consideration for you? Meaning, if the knee keeps shaking, can you back away? Can you stop and say, wait, where am I in this? I want him. Oh, wait. I lose control of me when I say I want him to fill in any blank. Yeah. But instead, it's when we step back and say, wait, I don't have control over that. All I have is control over me. Yeah. And so where am I in this? Well, I want to step back. I will ask. And if that request is denied, then what do I do with that? Do I externalize it and say, hey, buddy, you need to stop. Yeah. You can. Yeah. But it seems like immediately you're met with, and you're saying sort of a defiant look of like, I'm not gonna stop. I'm I'm not gonna give you. Either I'm not capable, I'm not willing. I don't know. I don't know what the answer to that is. He's not here to tell us. Yes. And so it's where am I in that? It's like, what do I need? Well, I I don't want to be impacted by this anymore. That's right. That's right. And so do I move chairs before I get angry, or do I move over? Or do I step back and say, I can't control that. I can't impact that. I can't affect that. Let's take the control word off of it. Yeah. I can't impact that. Yeah. That's outside of my scope of impact right now. So what I would want to have happen in that instant is for me to dissipate the anger that I'm feeling. Sure. But let's look at the anger. I love that. You're exactly right. Yeah. I don't want to feel this anger. No, I don't. But what's the anger about? It goes back to you don't care about me. And so it's externalized. Yeah. What talk to me about you? I guess that's a blank in my I I don't understand how to Oh yeah. That makes sense. I don't get that. And here's the reality. Most of us don't. I don't want to say all of us don't. Yeah. Because I don't know that that's true, but I would say most of us don't.

Anger As Power And A Signal

29:22

Yeah. And so I'm curious if the anger is about, I don't feel like I can impact something that's bothering me to this degree. I feel powerless. That's right. Yeah. That's a good word. And when I feel powerless, anger helps me have that power. Yeah. And that that anger, I think that anger makes sense. Yeah. And I think it's okay to feel it. Yeah. You're saying I don't want that anger to grow. Right. Because if that anger grows, then I I become and do and say things I don't want to become different. That's what happens. That's what happens. And so to me, what I hear you saying is that I keep losing me. I don't know where I am in this. Yeah. Other than irritated and annoyed. That's accurate. Yeah. And powerful. And I don't like, and I feel like he has the power and control over what I'm feeling by his actions. Through his actions, he's controlling me because I don't know what to do with it other than react in anger. Sure. So no wonder you're angry. Yeah. And resentment and, you know, just in years of that. The years of that being that, how what what's that? How would you describe that? His behavior, uh, negative behaviors that that have hurt you. That have hurt me. So take that, those negative behaviors that have have hurt you, yeah, and bring me back to you. Does that make sense? No, this is where most people give me like a deer in the headlight stare. Yeah. Because I don't know what that means. Exactly. Because I don't, I have found that I don't believe we're taught what that means, which is the importance of what we're doing to from from my perspective, is where am I in that? Yeah. Well, I feel powerless. Yeah. I feel like he wants to hurt me. That's right. But if we take him out of the picture, it's like, I feel like I'm being hurt. It's like, how do I impact that? How do I move back a little bit? How do I navigate a situation that I'm not going to be heard? Are you talking about like coping mechanisms? Yeah, well, and coping. Yes, and not losing you. Because what what happens is we put our sights solely on the person that we feel like is taking our power. Yeah. And it's like, well, the only way you can take it is if I give it to you. Right. And so how do I take that back? What are the things that I need to do to take back that power? And I know some people get a little um sketched out by the idea of power. Like, oh, what are you talking about? You want me to be powerful? It's like, no, I want you to live fully in you. Yeah. Meaning, if I'm not heard, do I hear myself? Let me put it this way: I hate being misunderstood. And if you wanted to know how to drive me crazy, it was to pretend like you didn't understand me. And if I said, you know, I really, I'm really into tacos right now. Oh. Oh, you like pizza? No. I said tacos. Oh, so you love Italian food? Uh that's not what I said. I would have been a big gorilla pounding on the table. I had tacos. Right? Yeah. What I've realized is that wait, do I understand me? And if you don't understand me, does that bother me? Sure. Because I want to be connected. I want to be understood. But do I understand me? Am I overlooking me? Uh by by in what sense? Um in what sense? In the sense of I like tacos. And you say, oh, you like pizza? No, that's not what I said. So you just keep saying I like tacos. At some point, I'm gonna disengage from the conversation. That's yes. But I'm not gonna be angry because I I might be frustrated. Yeah. But I believe emotions are are like a uh they're like a dashboard. They're there to tell me, like, I'm I'm driving one of my kids' cars right now. Yeah. And I'm having to get accustomed to what all the signs and signals on the dashboard are. Yeah. And there was one light that came on that gave a schematic drawing of something that I was like, okay, this is either the oil or the coolant. I don't know which one it is. I had to get the manual out. Oh no. And I had to look and I was like, oh, it's the coolant. Okay. Then I had to open the hood and I had to discover what that light was telling me. I put the coolant in, the light went away, all was great. Okay. Make sense? Yeah. And so what does that analogy mean on a practical sense? Well, when you feel this frustration, it's like, wait, where am I? Because our tendency is to go, you are being so frustrating. Yeah. As opposed to saying, wait, I'm frustrated. Why? Yeah. Because I I want this behavior to stop. Yeah. Okay. The behavior's not, that's not a thing that's there, there's no willingness there. Okay. So now what am I gonna do? Am I gonna keep going at this and saying, understand me? Yell at you to understand me. It's like if the air pressure, the tire pressure light comes on. Yeah. And you look and it's like there's a hole blown in the side of your tire. Yeah. And you keep trying to air it up. Yeah. It's ineffective. Right. And so it's like, okay, this is ineffective. So what do I do with this? Well, I want to not be bothered. So I'm gonna get up and move. Yeah. Or I move my chair over. Yeah. Or I leave. And you're like, well, I don't want to leave. I was having fun. Okay. But now we're back to you. Yeah. Now you know I'm not willing to leave because I'm having too much fun. Yeah. And I can scoop my chair over, but I'm worried about other people. Where am I in that? Can I release them to can I release myself in a sense of like, I'm gonna That's not my problem. Yeah. Yeah. Or I can let it go. Yeah. I don't have to be overseeing all of this. Yeah. Because in reality, I'm trying to give them what I desperately want somebody to give me. That's right. So rather than giving it to them, can I just give it to me first? Oh. That's a good solution. Would it be workable? Yeah. Would that be something that I I think so? I think I'm like halfway there. Because after 45 years, you know, you when you're constantly beating your head up against a wall, you feel like you're beating your or in the bottom of a well. Yes. And you're not being heard. Yes. You have to look for other alternative ways to manage and cope. Yes. And also at the same time be gracious. And because I've tried all the, you know, I've tried uh lashing out. I've tried saying really bad things. Right. You know, and in ang out of anger. And I've tried at one point when I was younger, I think I even threw something against a wall. Because you were making a point. I mean, I was like, okay, this has to stop. And um, I think I threw something against a wall. And how much of that was trying to get his attention? All of it. And so the premise of what I want to show is what if I can't? Yeah. And how much of my power, my influence, my self am I willing to give away in the effort to get that. Oh, that's that's good. That's good. As opposed to saying, I'm not willing to engage in this. That's good. I'm not being heard. I will step aside and I will hear me. I like that. I don't want to feel annoyed. Therefore, I'm gonna have to take care of that. Yeah, I like that. Does that make sense? I like that. Yes, it does. Does that feel plausible? It does because I've never heard it put that way before. Yeah. Because then that's taking care of me first. Yes. And then when I take care of me first, I'm better able to take care of others. Yes. Right? Yes. That's a strong principle that my values inform who I am. Uh-huh. I have to care for me. Yep. Then I have capacity to care for you. Yeah. And people look at that and say, well, isn't that selfish? I was just going to say that because an uh the generation that I grew up in, and being raised in a military family, we were never allowed to care for ourselves. It was viewed as selfish, self-centered, wrong. You could be grounded for displaying that kind of behavior. You know, you could be, yeah. I mean, people didn't want to be around you if you were if you acted like that. Because what's the idea of acting like that? What would that have looked like when you're saying we could be grounded and nobody wants to be around you if you act like that? Yeah, like you're being um disrespectful and you're being a brat and you're being rude. Okay. All negative. So it's rude, disrespectful, and bratty, right? Yep. And you think about if you care for yourself first, you have the bandwidth or the wherewithal to be calm, to simply move again, taking this one, taking this one through the one of many. We could be here all day. But it's like if I can, if I simply move my chair over, if I simply get up and just reset my nervous system from being frustrated.

Self-Care Moves That Defuse Anger

39:53

Yep. And the way I would do that is I'd stand up, walk to the restroom, splash some cold. You may not want to splash cold water on your face because No, I'd ruin my makeup. Yeah, ladies, ruin them on. Right. But you could, you know, run some cold water over your hands, breathe, like focus on your breathing, like calm that nervous system a little bit. Yes. You know, be aware and present with your body, all that good stuff. Yep. And then you could go back to the table and scoot away, or go sit on the other side and say, I don't need to provide a good time for everybody. Yeah. I'm only here. Yeah. Like can manage what's mine to manage. Yes. And then does that look bratty? No. Does that look disrespectful? No. Does that look selfish? No. It actually looks how how would you describe it? It's deeply caring about someone yourself. Exactly. It's deeply caring for that person that is in distress right now. Which is. Which is me. Right. So rather than it being disrespectful, bratty, and selfish, we actually could see that if I care for myself, I'm not going to lash out in anger. Right. I'm not going to throw anything at you. Right. I'm not going to beat my head against the wall. So this idea that caring for me first is not selfish. No. It actually sets us up to provide care for others, even when they're acting like stinkers. I love that. I love that. We've walked all the way through it, and it comes back to me loving me, being responsible for me. That's it. You giving yourself the attention you're looking for. Yes. And when you miss a ball or when you hit one in a place you didn't intend, rather than running yourself down, you say, hmm, I missed it. Yeah. Sorry, ladies. Yes. Doug. Yes. We don't care. No, they don't. Cool. They never did. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I love that. Because I'm going to take care of me. Yep. Yeah.

Doubles Court Boundaries And Respect

42:02

Because if you think about, if you think this is this is interesting. If you think about the game of doubles, you have your side of the court, they have their side of the court. Right. Right. So I'll take care of me. Yep. You take care of you. Yeah. We're going to be a really cool team. Yes. And we're going to encourage each other. That's right. Right. So instead of because have you ever played with somebody where they run all over the court and you're just standing there going, yes. Wait, that was my ball. Oh, yes. Wait, that was mine. Oh yeah. But they think, oh, well, I'm just caring for you. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And you're like, well, it doesn't feel like care. No, it doesn't. It doesn't. Feels like you don't want me around. That's right. Feels like I'm not needed. Or they think they're better. Yeah. That they think about that. Like, like think about that picture when it's time to care for you, and you're thinking about the environment, meaning everybody else, or what other people are feeling. It's like, I don't want to be that double's partner. Yeah. I'm going to let them care for them. Right. Because the message it sends them is either, and I I don't know that it sends everybody this message, but I'm better than you. I can care for you better than you. That's right. Now, sometimes it and I look, I'm not saying don't be caring for other people. Right. Right. I'm just saying we've got to start from a premise of where am I in this? Yes. Because when I know where I am, like I'm thinking again about this doubles uh business. And if somebody comes in and swings a racket and they don't know where they are, therefore they don't know where you are, and they smack you upside the head with that racket. It's happened to me. Yeah. It has. It's not fun. No. It's no, no. Fair. And you it's fair. Yeah. Real fair. And so the awareness of self is so important to be loving and kind and tender to other people. Yes. Because if I don't know where I am, I'm going to swing that racket thinking I'm doing something good for you. That's right. When really I'm clonking you in the back of the head. That's exactly right. And so is it possible or does it make sense that you would consider any time something comes up where I'm not being heard? Because remember, it started with he's not hearing me. That's right. Would you be willing to shift it to I'm not being heard? Yes. Yes. And then we shift it to what do I need to do to care for me? Right. How am I going to acknowledge what I need? How am I going to acknowledge what I feel? Yeah. Would that be a fair place to start? Sure would be. Awesome. Yeah. Because the other, the old way clearly does not work. And it only creates more. It's like a vicious cycle. It's like a hamster on a wheel. Yeah. And you're constantly striving to get somewhere and you're not getting anywhere. Right. You're in the bottom of the well. Right. And it's not working. Because I can't make you do things. No. And so the question, where am I in this? Does that make a little more sense? That does. Makes a whole lot of sense. Okay. And then you can start looking for ways to cope under the premise of, oh, I'm going to take care of myself in this situation. Right. And what does that look like? Right. What do I need to do to show myself that right now I'm caring for you? Yeah. Right? 100%. I'm caring for myself, meaning myself. Yeah. No, that's exactly it. Okay. And then where's your power? It's all right. I've got it. Yeah. Where's your influence? Yeah. It's all right here. Yeah. Yeah. And then the joy of what you get to offer other people. Yes. It's like, I want to listen to you because I listen to me. Yeah. I want you to feel loved because I feel loved. Oh, I love that. I want to give you what I have, not what I don't have. I love that. I

Stop Borrowing What You Need

46:05

love it. Love the analogy of, and I I use this often, is if a philanthropic organization came to you and said, Hey, would you pledge $100 million to our organization? You'd say, Oh, what for? What are what are you about? Well, it's all good stuff. It's things that you love. Could you give me $100 million? Well, if I had it, I could. I would. But I don't have it. Well, then I can't give it. Exactly. But how often do we go to a bank and we say, hey, let me borrow $100 million? We give it to this philanthropic organization that we think is great. Yeah. And I'm sure they they let's let's just operate with the premise they're amazing. Okay. And then we get mad because we've got all these this interest and all these late fees because we're not servicing that debt. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Because we took something that wasn't ours to give away. Yeah. And it cost us something tremendous. But we don't have it to give. And then we're mad at the the organization for taking that money from us. Yes. And they're like, but you gave it. Yes. And it's like, wait, if I don't have a hundred million dollars to give away, why am I going to the bank for a loan? I'm not going to do that anymore. If I don't have it to give, I can't give it. I love your request. If I have the time, I can help you raise the money, but I can't give it to you because I don't have that. Yeah. Does that make sense? Or I'm not willing to give that. It does. Yeah, it does. This is why I feel like these principles are so important. Yeah. Is because we ex often extend ourselves thinking we're being loving, but we're trying to get from the environment something we desperately need. And I don't, I hope this doesn't come out wrong, but when you talk about selfish, you know what I mean? Am I caring for the environment or am I caring for me? And I don't think it's black and white. Yeah. I don't think that you talking to people at the grocery or loving on the people that are around you. That's not selfish. Yeah. It's just when we look at it to say, I'm gonna, I'm want this to give this back to me. Yeah. And it's like, then be honest about that. Yeah. Where am I in this? Yeah. And it's opens us up to so much freedom. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, I've never heard it presented that way because I always have looked outward and expecting what I need from other people. And you know, that was being raised in a household that uh both parents either emotionally and physically absent. You know, you just you're looking for places to feel validated, feel loved, absolutely cared for. And we need that. Yeah. That's a normal, natural desire. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. It's how do we go about it at this part of our life? Mm-hmm. I can't thank you enough for having the courage to sit down with me and do this. Oh, thank you, Lee. Yeah. Helped me see everything from a different perspective. And I can't wait to read about it in your book even more. Yeah. This has been great. Thank you for asking me to share this with you. You bet.

Closing Reflections And Next Steps

49:33

And that's where we leave it today. To our guest, thank you. Thank you for your honesty. Thank you for your courage. And thank you for your willingness to ask the harder question. If something you heard landed for you, please sit with it. Don't rush past it. The wait method only works when you actually stop and ask. I'm sure you noticed this in the session. The where am I in this? If you want to go deeper, Lee's book, Wait, Where Am I in This is available now wherever books are sold and at drleelong.com, also on Audible. Thanks for listening to Wait. Let's talk about that. And we'll see you next time.