When Healthy Love Feels Terrifying (part 2 of 2)

This episode continues the conversation with the same anonymous guest from "I Want Love...So Why Do I Keep Running From It?" If you haven't heard Part 1, we recommend listening to that episode first before tuning into this one.

In that episode, you'll hear how the WAIT method helped uncover the patterns that were keeping her from the relationship she wanted.

Now, the story continues.

After reconnecting with the man she walked away from, she finds herself in something she's never experienced before: a healthy relationship. But instead of feeling safe, old fears begin to resurface.

Why do we want to run when things are finally going well? Why can healthy love feel so uncomfortable? And how do we stop letting old patterns make decisions for us?

In this honest follow-up conversation, Dr. Lee Long and Lila Pond explore what happens after the breakthrough. Together, they unpack fear of intimacy, future projecting, the urge to create conflict, and the challenge of staying connected without losing yourself.

If you've ever wondered why healing doesn't automatically erase old patterns, this episode is for you.

Because sometimes the greatest growth isn't finding yourself. It's choosing not to lose yourself when love finally arrives.

The WAIT, Let's Talk About That with Dr. Lee Long podcast is intended solely for general informational purposes and does not represent the practice of medicine, therapeutic and psychiatric services, nursing, or other professional health care services. It also does not constitute the provision of medical, therapeutic or psychiatric advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is established. The information on this podcast and any materials linked from it are used at the user's own risk. The content provided through this podcast should not be considered a replacement for professional medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice, diagnosis, or treatment. It is important that users do not ignore or postpone seeking medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice for any health or mental health condition they might have, and should always consult with their health care professionals regarding such conditions.

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Dr. Lee Long’s book: WAIT, Where Am I in This on Amazon

Transcript

Welcome Back To The Wait Method

SPEAKER_06 0:00

So he calls you.

unknown 0:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 0:02

You say to yourself, okay, I'm scared. You acknowledge it. You acknowledge the pattern. The pattern is to run away. The pattern is to avoid. The pattern is to distance. And you said, I'm not doing that this time.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 0:20

Welcome to wait. Let's talk about that. A podcast where real people work through real moments, live and anonymous. I'm Dr. Lee Long.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

And I'm Lila Pond. Today we're welcoming back a guest that you've heard from before. And the last time she was here, she'd found real success using the wait method in her relationship. So of course we had to ask, what happens after the breakthrough?

SPEAKER_06 0:48

Right. Because progress isn't the finish line. Sometimes the very patterns we think that we've handled are still quietly running the show underneath the good breakthrough.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

That's the thing about the wait method. Where am I in this? It doesn't stop working once things are going well. That's often when it actually gets to work the deepest. And you'll hear that throughout this session.

SPEAKER_06 1:15

You know, our guest is staying anonymous because honest stuff usually is. And today, the honesty is about the patterns that we're still steering, even after the win.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

So before you mistake a good stretch for the whole story, let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_06 1:40

Just as a reminder, this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It's not therapy and doesn't create a counselor-client relationship. Do you confirm?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:51

Awesome. Welcome back.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:54

So last you were on, just in case somebody didn't hear your first episode, we worked through how you show up in your own story and how you treat yourself as it comes to relationships, specifically with men. Is that a fair overview?

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 2:14

Anything you would add to that?

SPEAKER_01 2:16

It's so intertwined with all the other areas of my life. I remember mentioning like how you do one thing is how you do everything, and discovering that how I behave in relationships and noticing how I behave in other areas of my life. And yeah, as a whole, it was definitely how I behave in relationship. So it's really interesting to listen back, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_06 2:41

Yeah. So what was your take on hearing hearing that back and going through that, I would say?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah. I've listened to it a couple of times. Oh wow. Yeah. So at different like areas in the last couple of months in my life. In the last episode, I spoke about how

The Healing High And The Come Down

SPEAKER_01 3:00

I was, you know, sort of dating somebody. After we recorded that episode, what was it like end of January or something? Yeah, it's been a while. Yeah, him and I parted. And I essentially ran away. It was kind of like that come down from the trip from the podcast episode and discovering all of those things, the contraction from the opening, right?

SPEAKER_06 3:22

And will you say more about that, the contraction from the opening?

SPEAKER_01 3:27

In my years of healing and working with a very close mentor of mine in addiction counseling and everything like that, you know as well as I do the science of the oxytocin and the connection with addiction and all that great stuff. If anybody is going through that, I highly recommend that they research that and look into that. But there's a contraction when you open so much and discover so much, or you're on that really beautiful um healing high and there's like a come down, um, which is so interesting to me. And when it first started happening to me in healing, the crash was so hard that I was like, why do I keep doing this? Why am I gonna keep going through with all of this stuff when I keep going back?

SPEAKER_06 4:17

Go through with all of what stuff?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Like going through the work. Uh yeah. The work of healing. Why do I keep trying to put in all of this to be a better person when I keep crashing down and becoming really depressed? Or just contemplating all of my decisions again and pushing everyone away and isolating.

SPEAKER_06 4:36

What's interesting is what you're describing, and when you say oxytocin, for people who don't know, it's a neurochemical, right? It's a and it's it's the bonding hormone. And when you think about like thinking about that expanding and contracting, I look at it from a place of if you draw it on a graph, it goes up. And then we have a refractory period of certain things where when something goes up, it has to equally go down. And so it is if we are surfing through experiences, it's knowing where you are in the high, so to speak, and then knowing where you are in the low, so to speak. And that's how the body seeks homeostasis.

SPEAKER_05 5:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:26

We think if it goes up, it comes down, then that's all it's going to do.

SPEAKER_05 5:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:30

But when it goes up, it has to equally and oppositely go down. And that's what you're describing, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And also what I have learned is that the lows get less and less because of the recovery time. Because once you're aware of what's happening, you can kind of stop the pattern in its tracks and come right back up.

SPEAKER_06 5:51

So when I hear you say that, what I hear is that instead of making meaning that this is scary and bad, you recognize this is part of the process. It's like when you work out, you are fired up, you're lifting heavy weight.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:09

And then you know what comes after that is you're gonna be tired.

SPEAKER_05 6:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:13

And the meaning I that you make of that fatigue is yeah, that was a really killer workout. Instead of, oh my gosh, I've just hurt my body, it's bad, this is bad. I thought working out was supposed to give you energy. It does. And it's not just why you're fired up lifting the heavy weights.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

And you do see that in beginners. I definitely see that in my career with beginners. You know, they're like, why am I so sore? Why am I hurting so bad? I thought this was supposed to help. And I'm like, well, it does. But you're gonna, you know, you're gonna go on that wave. So yeah, I've definitely learned that within healing. And going back to where we started, like I did that after the podcast, after we recorded. I went home and it was like maybe a week. And also I was at the end of my cycle, like those emotions are at the highest of high. And it wasn't a, hey, can we talk? It was a I don't want to do this anymore. And it was cut off, and I spent three months thinking about him every single day, and going through the motions and looking at my life and everything else. And then I had texted you because there are no coincidences, I believe. The day that the episode debuted and aired, I received a message from him asking, Hey, can we reconnect? So it was just really interesting. And so him and I reconnected, had a really incredible connection conversation about what happened.

SPEAKER_06 7:54

How'd you describe that, if you don't mind me asking? Described what happened with him. To him.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Oh, to him. There was a lot of anger because what initially had happened is I had texted him and said I don't want to do this anymore. I thought he would have reciprocated, and I think inner childwise was looking for that a fight for me, you know, because that's a childhood wound of mine. And it was like, okay, you're incredible and amazing. And if you don't want to do this, okay, that's it. And that was that. So he So I was mad at him for doing that.

SPEAKER_06 8:32

Yeah. So he didn't fall into your pattern because you know, we have the question, the learning where we are, which is our start line. That's not all the work. Yeah. Learning where you are is the beginning of the work. And in that beginning, what we start to see, what illuminates for us if we continue to seek where am I in this moment? Yeah. We see that we have these roadblocks that keep us from being where we want to be. And one of them is a pattern loop. And we just loop in that pattern. And he didn't play into the pattern.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

He never does.

SPEAKER_06 9:14

He never does. There's a there's current in that. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

There is current. Um we are now like together. We say, That's my boyfriend, that's my girlfriend, and I'm terrified. And it's actually been really hard the last couple weeks. And what I have found, because I use EFT tapping, that's

The Text That Reopens The Story

SPEAKER_01 9:35

one of my main tools that I use to work through things for myself. What I discovered is that oh, there's skin in the game now. Our Vegas analogy, you know, like every month that goes by, there's more money on the table. You know, the three-month cycle, it always for some reason comes in three months.

SPEAKER_06 9:57

Which is another pattern to watch. Keep going.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Yeah, yeah. We're going into the third, and I'm starting to get scared.

SPEAKER_06 10:04

And where do you find yourself in that fear?

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Not wanting to lose it all.

SPEAKER_06 10:10

That makes sense. Because if I lose it all, what will happen?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Current 36-year-old me knows that hey, it's gonna be fine. It'll suck out because I really care about him, but we're gonna be fine. Other younger parts of me are terrified. I don't want to go through what happened in my last relationship. Because not only did it feel like I was going to die, there was contemplation. Like it was at that edge, like rock bottom.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

It was horrible. And I never want to go back to that.

SPEAKER_04 10:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

And I keep finding myself replaying that. It's like a PTSD moment.

SPEAKER_06 10:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Because it was so bad.

SPEAKER_06 10:51

And in that moment that was so hard, so bad, so bad that you think I just want out of here. And to be clear, like you weren't planning anything. No, it was more of a passive, I don't want to be here anymore. I'm asking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:09

And in that, where were you in that?

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Oh, I was so lost in the dark.

SPEAKER_06 11:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

I couldn't see anything.

SPEAKER_06 11:19

Okay. And so that pattern is so I run away. I run toward familiarity. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Which at the time was chaotic family household. Which I know how to deal with that. I can deal with that.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

I know how to do that at the time. Currently it's very different. Side note, I went back home last month and I was like, I can't wait to get out of here.

SPEAKER_06 11:46

Why? Because where did you find yourself there? Because basically what you're describing is that when I lost what I really loved or thought I loved, but what I loved at the time, I should probably say.

SPEAKER_05 11:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:59

It was so gut-wrenching that it felt like I needed to run back to the familiar. That's where I'll find comfort.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yeah. It's what my body knew. It's what my nervous system knew. Right. Comfort.

SPEAKER_06 12:13

And the comfort came through chaos. But then you did the work of finding you, not the environment. And you go back and recognize wait, this chaos is not helpful to who I know I am.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Yeah. And not that person anymore. I am no longer that person anymore. And that great old thing in the healing spaces, you know, you think you're healed until you go hang out with your family.

SPEAKER_06 12:45

Right. Because we revert back to all of our patterns.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:49

Right. It's like this magnetic energetic pool to go assume, quote unquote, your place.

SPEAKER_05 12:57

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 12:58

Until you discover you in your place and decide if this is where I would like to stay. Which is why discovering those patterns are so powerful.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 13:12

So it's pattern loops. It's an illusion of control, or what I call the control illusion, or mind reading, which is where we think we know what everybody else thinks because we're going to stay safe in our own fantasy world where we're having the conversation with them in our head, but we're not giving space to that conversation in reality. And the last, which I would say really encapsulates everything, is I don't know me. I've never slowed down to take the time to understand me. I don't know my original language.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:46

And I need to discover that. And so there's you're saying like this pattern got illuminated for you, which that pattern was to pull away because that's how you controlled or thought you controlled the environment.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:59

Fair?

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Fair. And I would add into their like future projecting.

SPEAKER_06 14:04

Say more.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

I am someone that can kind of see if somebody makes a statement of, you know, like, oh, you should move here, da da da. I'm like, I can build this entire life around a vision, right? And I do that a lot. And it's great for my career. Cause it it keeps me moving forward, right? But in relationship, I will future vision and future project either in the negative or the positive. And when you do it in the negative, you're making a prediction about something that hasn't even happened yet. So then it keeps you back here and keeps you scared of not moving forward.

SPEAKER_06 14:41

It's a form of avoidance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Absolutely. I can't do that. Well, I already know what's going to happen.

SPEAKER_06 14:48

Right. So you don't. No. None of us do, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

I mean, we can predict this and ask God for what you want, but you don't know exactly how it's going to happen.

SPEAKER_06 14:59

So he texts you right as the podcast started.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

I heard from him that morning, and then I heard from you like mid-morning. Wow. And I when your text came in that it debuted, I started laughing. I was like, of course. And I listened to it that night. And it was like my past self giving advice to my current self in that moment. And it's like, he is now connecting. And if you want this, you can take what you've learned through our podcast session and move forward. And so I saw it definitely as that, okay, we're just going to exercise this muscle. We don't know where this is going, if it's going to keep going or if it's just for the moment, we're going to exercise that muscle. And that's okay. That's okay. Because guess what? We're okay. We're fine. We don't have that chaotic life like we used to, you know, being codependent on a boyfriend hoping that he saves us from this life. Because that was my previous relationship. He lived in another state, and anytime chaos at home,

Parts Work And The Control Illusion

SPEAKER_01 16:05

I'm calling him and I'm like, can you fly me out? Because I can't be here anymore.

SPEAKER_06 16:10

So there's that pattern of avoidance.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah. Running away from and the savior, like of somebody, right? So it was definitely reminding those younger parts of myself, we're okay. We don't need that savior anymore. We're we're not in that victim mentality. We can very well take care of ourselves. And also, I have so many support systems now that I can lean on in case I do feel like it gets too bad. I have those systems in place. I have those mentors in place for that exact reason. You're okay.

SPEAKER_06 16:48

So to connect, well, and to explain what you mean by younger selves and the you're describing what we call parts work, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 16:56

And in parts work like family part internal systems. Yeah, internal family systems is one I think he does a great job of explaining that work. And it's understanding that those influences, those patterns keep showing up in how we dealt with something at a certain age.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:16

And until we can identify it, so we can find ourselves in it, yeah, and understand that that's how I did it when I was 15 or when I was 12 or when I was 20. And do I still want to handle it that same way?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Exactly. I see it as for myself, it's like it's like a big conference room table. And I'll ask sometimes if I know that something is coming up, and I'm like, this isn't my current self. And I'll literally sit, close my eyes, tune into the body, and picture myself at that table. And I'm like, who's talking right now? Because it's not current me. Who is this? And a lot of the times, you know, a younger part of myself from the past will kind of speak up and I can see that. So yeah, I see it as like a big conference table and all these different versions of me and current self is at the head.

SPEAKER_06 18:09

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:11

Because again, what are you asking? Where am I?

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:16

In this moment.

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:18

And again, it's not a global, it's not a global statement. It's not where am I in life? It's where am I as it relates to this moment, this situation. So he calls you. Yeah. You say to yourself, Okay, I'm scared. You acknowledge it. You acknowledge the pattern. The pattern is to run away. The pattern is to avoid.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:41

The pattern is to distance.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:44

And you said, I'm not doing that this time.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Yeah. That current self, like I was angry, but then also so happy that we could reconnect because, like I had said, I spent three months every single day. I mean, like, damn, I really jacked that up. Again, I messed that up. And I I had talked about that in the previous episode. I'm scared because I'm gonna ruin it. Like I did the last time. And then the that worthiness piece came in and everything like that, which by the way was such a great section to listen to again. So yeah, we had a really great conversation.

SPEAKER_06 19:20

And yeah, because one of the things that hit me when we were talking last is you had head knowledge of your worth.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 19:30

But it was the demonstration to yourself of that worth.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Yes. Because I listened to it last night, so it was kind of fresh. I remember the part about those two parts of me clashing my knowledge of my self-worth and how I feel about myself, which is great and high, with my previous partner's image of me or what I thought he thinks of me. Right. That's not what I know.

SPEAKER_06 19:57

Right. Which is the mind reading, right? Yes. Is I'm thinking for you. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 20:02

And what am I concluding?

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Yes. Based off of his behavior, which is not my issue at all. That's whatever he has going on in his life. Right. Within himself. Right. And those two things were clashing and colliding. So that was such an interesting part to re-listen to. Yeah. And while I was listening to it, there were some parts of the episode that I would start tearing up again because all I wanted to do, I was like, you sweet girl. Like wanting to protect myself. Like, I'm so sorry that you feel that way. Yeah. And like that motherly instinct coming out, and I'm just like, oh man.

SPEAKER_06 20:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

I'm sorry you feel like that.

SPEAKER_06 20:44

Yeah, what a beautiful example of self-compassion. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Yes. The fantastic thing that I have also realized within listening to the episode last night was that I no longer have a visceral reaction when I think about my previous partner. It was just a previous part of my life. When before we had that conversation, it was still there. And it bothered me that it was still there. I'm like, oh my gosh, four years? Are you kidding me? Come on already.

SPEAKER_06 21:16

But who were you focused on?

SPEAKER_01 21:18

I still had those, that voice of him in my mind.

SPEAKER_06 21:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:23

What's so fascinating is like if you get a splinter in your foot, I remember one of my kids stepped on a rose bush uh branch and a thorn broke off in their foot.

SPEAKER_05 21:34

Oof.

SPEAKER_06 21:35

And they didn't say anything to us because they were like, I didn't want you to dig it out.

SPEAKER_05 21:40

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 21:40

It was going to be too painful. Yeah. Until finally one day the body pushed it out. When this kid of mine comes to me and says, Hey dad, can you help with this? I looked at it and I was like, That's like a sore. What is that? And then we kind of pushed. Around on it and out comes the thorn.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 22:03

But how often do we absorb something from someone else and think, oh no, it's going to be too painful?

SPEAKER_01 22:11

I don't want to deal with this.

SPEAKER_06 22:13

Right. But then what we see is that we let them basically leave us, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 22:20

And we recognize that wasn't part of me.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah. Yeah. And it's a lot easier than we thought it was.

SPEAKER_06 22:28

And what you're saying is that once you found where you showed up in the situation, you were able to let this sounds well, I don't know how it sounds, but you let it go. Sometimes I feel like when people say let it go, it sounds harsh.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:45

And I don't mean it in that way at all.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

As you know, I'm a massage therapist. It's kind of like a release.

SPEAKER_06 22:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

And that's a big thing in the industry right now, is like somatic therapy. And all somatic means is of the body. It's a big book in the industry. I don't know if you've read The Body Keeps the Score. Yeah. It's one of my favorites. But it does. It gets stuck in the body. And if you don't move that through, whichever way help is helpful for you. Right. Like you said, it gets stuck.

SPEAKER_06 23:16

And the key in my mind is, is if somebody some somebody was telling me, a friend was telling me not long ago, my fingers hurt. I was just curious. And these things always intrigue me.

SPEAKER_05 23:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 23:30

And so I was helping him trace it. What we figured out was it was in his elbow. And I was curious if it was in his neck. He goes and gets an x-ray of his elbow because he had had an injury. Turns out there was a piece of bone, a fragment of a bone that was just floating around in there and had stayed

Truth On The Table Over Fantasy

SPEAKER_06 23:50

on a nerve. And so if he were to only work on his fingers, it wouldn't have solved the problem.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Surface level.

SPEAKER_06 23:58

Which is why it's so important to discover where you are first, to then have your start line. It was the it was his fingers.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:07

That was the start line. But what needed to be dealt with was the elbow. And so your start line was, where am I when I run away? I'm trying to control everything outside of me.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:20

But once you came back into you and discovered where you are, it starts illuminating these patterns. So now these patterns are showing up and you're saying no more. He calls you or texts you, reach out to you, and he says, Let's talk.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 24:37

And you said, Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Oh, I was sassy, McSassers. And I was really mad. And he's like, Oh, okay. And then we left it for like the whole entire day. And then I called him the next morning. And poor thing. He answers the phone and he's like, Hello. Scared. Like, why did you do that? Why did you contact me? Because again, the avoidance. I'm like, I was dealing with this on my own. Why are why are you contacting me? Why are you opening this wound again?

SPEAKER_06 25:12

Which the subject of every sentence is. Where am I in the Well, but it's where are you? Why you? Why did you?

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yeah. Why did you why did you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:21

Why did you? Which is all outside of you, right? Yeah. And the conversation keeps going.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Yeah. So he works nights, and so he's like, Well, can I call you back? I need to take a shower and do all this stuff. So then we FaceTimed and had a very long conversation. And what we found out, or what I discovered, because I noticed it, is that he was just as scared as I was. In his mind, he was also protecting me. He's like, you know, so I let it be. And there were a couple of text messages within that breakup, but I never heard back. So because I never heard back, I'm like, okay, here we go again. Just the same thing.

SPEAKER_06 26:03

Isn't it interesting, y'all are both making up stories about the other? I'm protecting her, but in reality, that behavior wasn't protective at all.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:13

You think you're protecting you and likely him.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:17

And it wasn't protective at all.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:20

So you all finally put the reality on the table instead of the fantasy in the back of your mind. You have this conversation, you find this out that he's scared.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Yeah. And I can't remember the details, but it was a very long, in-depth conversation, just like everything out on the table. The one thing that sticks out in my mind is I remember telling him, you cannot make that choice for me. And I also cannot make that choice for him.

SPEAKER_06 26:47

No, but that's a very beautiful The mirror, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

I'm like, you can't make that choice for me. You didn't ask me. You didn't talk to me. I also didn't talk to him.

SPEAKER_06 26:59

So finding both of us in the scenario here.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

But that's what would always happen in my previous relationship. The relationship would never progress forward, or he would push me away and keep me out versus talking to me. And he was always making the choice for me. There's a difference between leading in a relationship as a masculine and just not discussing anything at all and making all the decisions. That's not fair. I'm in this too. Correct. Right? We had that conversation and we put boundaries and rules in place. One of our rules is always completely, brutally honest, no matter what.

SPEAKER_06 27:42

Can I push there a little bit? Absolutely. Brutality?

SPEAKER_01 27:45

That's probably not the best word.

SPEAKER_06 27:48

Well, but I want I want you to really consider that because sometimes honesty can come across or being brutal or harsh. Well, I was just being honest.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 28:03

No, I wasn't considering you.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 28:05

Yeah. I think that's part of it. Because once we find ourselves in things and we stop mind reading, we acknowledge our patterns and we stop trying to control things. We begin to understand who we are, like how we move through the world, then we have to consider and learn somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Yes. That was a part of what we talked about in the last episode. Language.

SPEAKER_06 28:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

And I say, like, oh, brutal honesty and stuff like that. Him and I are not like that. We actually speak very well to each other. I believe that. Um, we're super kind to each other. I believe that. But yeah, we put that rule in place. If we're gonna do this, it has to be complete honesty. And uh, I'm the one that said it, and I think I said it more for myself than I did for like we need this. Good. It was for me.

SPEAKER_05 28:57

Good.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

And a reminder to me. And we had a moment a couple weeks after that. We were on the phone and he had said something, I can't remember what we were talking about, but it upset me, and I immediately shut down. And this man is so receptive, like he is not oblivious to anything at all and picks up everything about me and around, right? Which is also new to me. So I can't hide because he can pick up on it. Whereas before, you're oblivious, I can do whatever I want, and you're not gonna pick up on it. You're just seeing me like, oh, I don't know why she's acting weird. I'm just gonna go over here and do my thing, versus asking me, like, hey, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_06 29:40

Yeah, so you're really seen in the relationship.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Wow. Very seen. Which, oh my gosh, I want to be so seen in a relationship. No, you really don't sometimes because when it happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:51

You have to be careful what you ask for, right? Exactly. Or you have to be aware that what you're asking for has different consequences, which aren't bad.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

It's not bad, but it's it's new. Yeah. And it's uncomfortable. Sure. So I had shut down and he's like, What's going on? Nothing. I'm gonna go to sleep. And he's no, you never get off the phone like that. What's wrong? Nothing. I'll talk to you later. Okay, good night. And got off the phone and I'm laying there and I'm like, he didn't push me. He's not falling into my pattern.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

It wasn't but 30 seconds because I remembered our rule. And I call back and he goes, That was a fast sleep.

SPEAKER_06 30:34

I like this guy.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Yeah. And I go, I broke the rule. He's all you broke the rule. So what's going on? Told him. We talked about it. Conversation. I'm sorry I made you feel that way. I didn't realize that it came across that way. I remember that part. We were just talking. I didn't realize how it would affect you. So I'm really sorry. Okay, this is why I feel that way, and that's why I behave that way, and da da da. And that was the conversation,

The Rule Of Honesty And Repair

SPEAKER_01 31:05

and we moved on and had our normal night.

SPEAKER_06 31:08

Would you say you learned something about him that night?

SPEAKER_01 31:11

That he can handle me. Remember that was the big topic.

SPEAKER_06 31:14

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:16

Did you learn something about you that night?

SPEAKER_01 31:18

That I can be open and honest, and I should be, no matter who it is. Because if whoever I am being open and honest with, if I care enough to be.

SPEAKER_06 31:33

Definitely worthy to be open and honest with yourself, but keep going.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Yeah. That if it's received in a negative manner, it's like, okay, that's not for me then, because that's just who I am. But that I can definitely do that in a relationship and be well received, be seen, be heard, and ultimately be loved within that. Because him and I might not be in love with each other, but we love each other. Right.

SPEAKER_06 32:01

The thing that that's so impactful in what you're describing from my perspective is when you got off the phone, you were focused on him.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

The first time?

SPEAKER_06 32:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 32:13

He didn't push, he didn't pursue. Yeah. He's not trying to fix.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Yeah. He's not fighting with me.

SPEAKER_06 32:19

Right. And then who did you come to?

SPEAKER_01 32:22

I don't care.

SPEAKER_06 32:23

Right. Which is all about who? Right. And so there's that pattern, right? That pattern of externalizing. But you came back where?

SPEAKER_01 32:34

To myself.

SPEAKER_06 32:35

And immediately said what?

SPEAKER_01 32:36

I broke the rule. I did this.

SPEAKER_06 32:39

Therefore, what'd you do?

SPEAKER_01 32:41

I fixed it.

SPEAKER_06 32:43

You picked up the phone.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Yeah, I picked up the phone.

SPEAKER_06 32:46

And because you knew it was safe, or because you believed it would be safe, because I don't want to set anybody up, especially not you, to believe that I need to be honest with everyone. I I don't know that that's true. There's times when we wear a parka.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:05

Because that's the safest thing to wear. You don't go out in a t-shirt in, you know, 10 below weather.

SPEAKER_04 33:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:12

It's not safe. Does that mean the t-shirt is bad and wrong? No. The conditions aren't safe for the t-shirt, but you don't go out in a parka when it's 100 degrees outside.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:27

The conditions aren't safe for the parka in that. Are they not conducive? I mean, safety is questionable.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

As you're saying that, an instant, oh, I used to be really open and honest intentionally, like brutally intentionally, because I wanted everyone to be safe. Because I was never in a safe environment. So if I tell you all of this, if I'm completely open and honest with you about everything, you'll somehow, you know, oh, she's a little fragile. I gotta keep her safe.

SPEAKER_06 34:03

And where were you putting your care?

SPEAKER_01 34:05

In other people's hands.

SPEAKER_06 34:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:07

And then disappointed when they didn't know how to read the instructions.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 34:12

Right?

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 34:13

And when it comes back to you, it's like, yeah, I know how to care for me. The thing that I loved too that you guys parsed out was that it doesn't sound like he went to, oh, I'm bad, but that's not what, or that's not what I meant.

SPEAKER_05 34:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:32

I didn't say that. There wasn't a defensiveness to his part. It was he either intrinsically understands this or he fully understands. There is an intent to conversation, and then there's an impact. And it was like you guys parsed that out beautifully.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:53

He says, I'm sorry. That was never my intention to hurt you. But I can own that that was the impact.

SPEAKER_05 35:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 35:01

And I'm sorry that I impacted you that way.

SPEAKER_05 35:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:05

And you could then see, oh my he's owning the impact. And I can also see and give him grace or credit or however you want to articulate that for the fact that his intention was not to hurt me.

unknown 35:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:21

Okay. Then you're learning more about him.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Which is incredibly attractive.

SPEAKER_06 35:25

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 35:26

One that I can be my full self, especially in those types of moments. But the comprehension on his end. Yeah. I myself, I'm extremely intelligent and I love to learn. And side note, I've had a conversation with a friend of basically always choosing somebody that's a little bit, not a little bit, a lot less intelligent than myself. So that I can feel a little bit more superior, right? Uh-huh. Um, but I am now at a point in my life where like he matches me, if not more, sometimes. And it's incredibly attractive because I can see eye to eye and still hold my own and hold my ground. You are you, I am me. And we can just flow through this. We can calibrate. That is also very scary. That's what's coming up in fear as well.

SPEAKER_06 36:22

Tell me why.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Everything is so calm and so great that it's terrifying. Not necessarily in the when's the other shoe gonna drop, but like, this is too calm. Like, is it boring? Shouldn't there be more intense energy here? Based off of past experiences.

SPEAKER_06 36:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

That's what feels normal.

SPEAKER_06 36:45

But let me ask you this. There shouldn't be more intense energy here. But what was it like when you had that conversation with him about, hey, that kind of hurt my feelings, or yeah, what whatever the conversation was when you called back and said, Hey, I broke the rule.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

I guess that was intensity, like a magnetizing intensity.

SPEAKER_06 37:03

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

A healthy intensity.

SPEAKER_06 37:06

It's a sustainable intensity.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:09

Because not everything can be explosive.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 37:12

Because then where do you go from that bang?

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Mm-hmm. The mirror effect of the drop, right? Yeah. So it's the noticing within that right now.

SPEAKER_06 37:22

Because even in that, you're learning how to receive intensity in a different manner.

SPEAKER_05 37:29

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 37:30

Because I the look on your face when you were describing that, when you said that's so attractive.

SPEAKER_05 37:35

I was like, tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_06 37:39

Because your whole demeanor was telling a big story.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:43

Right, right then and there, just in that so attractive. Three and a half words. Yeah. And there's energy there. Sustainable energy.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Sustainable energy. And I'm asking, did that I'm all about sustainability.

SPEAKER_06 38:00

Right. Did that feel boring?

SPEAKER_01 38:02

It didn't. It didn't. And the thought just came up, we haven't had to have conversation like that lately. And I've been wanting to fight. So it's like I'm looking for some sort of intensity. Okay. Both of our schedul we both travel for work.

Calm Love Feels Unfamiliar

SPEAKER_01 38:20

So our schedule, we probably see each other only once a month, but we talk every day.

SPEAKER_05 38:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Unless I'm here. So that's another thing that we do. When I'm here, I'm focused on work. And we do what is like what we call, we close the portal. I come here for work. I will talk to you when I'm done and when I get home. Because then I don't feel like I have to. We discussed in the last episode that like I will give up my entire life for somebody, right? And I'm used to that. And I was also asked not asked, but it was implied in my previous relationship. You always choose work over our relationship or over me. You you always choose work over me. Yeah. My career is my life, just like your career is your life. It's a part of who you are. Whereas he's like, I'm so excited. Go do amazing things. And so with us closing the portal when I get here, because I travel to Texas to work, but when I go come here for my week of work, I don't feel like I have to constantly keep up with him or like, hey, what are you doing? Sorry I wasn't able to check in. Because my schedule while I'm here is all over the place. It's not routine like it is at home.

SPEAKER_05 39:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

So our schedule is all over the place. And recently, like this last month, it's been really all over the place. So we've had connection. Like I said, we talk every day, but there haven't been moments of just true deep connection, I guess you would say. So I'm looking to fight.

SPEAKER_06 39:53

But the yeah. The word coming in my mind is intimacy.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 39:59

And I'm not talking about physical.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

No.

SPEAKER_06 40:01

What's interesting is to watch that pattern. And it's a light on your dashboard. We don't judge it, we don't criticize it. We notice it and then we become curious about it. And in that curiosity, what you're saying is, I'm needing and missing intimacy. And when the fight light comes on, uh what where am I in wanting to fight?

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:31

I'm wanting closeness.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:34

Which isn't that interesting.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 40:37

That what we that what we choose is a push away.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Yeah. Especially when you've grown up in a chaotic household and that's all you've known your most of your life. It's interesting because it feels like I've been going through this healing journey for like 10 years. In reality, it's only been about three and a half, which is very interesting to me because it feels like an absolute lifetime. Yeah. But yeah, when you grow up and have had most of your life be that chaos, the connection and the intimacy with whoever is fighting.

SPEAKER_04 41:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Let me pick a fight about something, or everything, if you're not aware of it, everything is driving me nuts about you, and I'm gonna fight with you about something.

SPEAKER_06 41:22

Because who are you focused on?

SPEAKER_01 41:23

The external. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:26

When you come back into you, you see a pattern and you go, all I want to do is fight right now. Yeah. Oh my gosh, yeah, that's my that's my fighting light.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:35

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

And I've said that to him when again he has picked up on like, hey, are you okay? Because I'm just cranky. And I feel like women, we act like children when we're very cranky.

SPEAKER_06 41:47

Like, I didn't say that.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Listen, I know that's true. I know I do.

SPEAKER_06 41:53

That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

But he was like, Are you okay? And I'm like, I just I'm really cranky. I was like, I I don't know what's going on. And then as the time went on and we were having our nightly phone call, I'm like, I want to fight with you. Cause I was getting really like short and snappy. And I'm like, I really want to fight with you right now. And he was like, Yeah, well, you know I won't fight with you, so you're gonna have to figure out what's going on.

SPEAKER_06 42:20

What was that a call to?

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Where am I in this?

SPEAKER_06 42:24

There's a deep call to introspection. Yeah. Saying, I'm not gonna do that, so you need to figure out you.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

And he holds the space for me to do that, which is new to me also, and is it's building really fantastic trust between us. Yeah. And you that's new. I didn't realize that was happening.

SPEAKER_06 42:45

There you go. And when you think about him holding space, which gives you trust, think about is there an intensity to that?

SPEAKER_01 42:56

There is.

SPEAKER_06 42:57

And where does that intensity lie?

SPEAKER_01 43:00

In my body, or it's more heart-centered. Yeah. It's more heart-centered.

SPEAKER_06 43:06

Where does the intensity more loving? Mm-hmm. Where does the intensity of the fight lie?

SPEAKER_01 43:13

I'm not sure how I w to answer that.

SPEAKER_06 43:16

Can I make an assumption?

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Yes, please.

SPEAKER_06 43:18

That I'm asking, so it's more of a hypothesis?

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 43:21

I think it lies outside of you.

SPEAKER_05 43:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 43:25

And you're moving through chaos because you're ignoring you. I need to fight you. Why don't you do these things? So it gets so externalized that we don't know how to answer the question where it lies in us. Notice how quickly you could find it when you're saying that trust. Oh, it's in my heart. It's deep in my soul.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

The biggest thing for I always say, like, I love attention, like I need a lot of attention from my partner. Again, child. But you're not giving me enough attention.

SPEAKER_06 43:57

And who's the subject of that sentence?

SPEAKER_01 43:59

On the flip side. Of that, I hadn't been giving myself enough attention. There it is. I had been spending my days waiting for him to get off of work so that we can have a conversation. I had stopped doing my morning routine. I had stopped journaling. I journal every morning to get my thoughts out. I had stopped doing my meditations. I had stopped going on my walk because I was waiting for him. And once I realized that was happening, I'm like, I'm doing the same thing again. Oh my God. So then I there are times too where I will mention to him, I need space. He's like, okay. And there was one time where I didn't know what was happening internally, and I needed to step away because I'm someone that can take on everybody, like everybody's stuff just kind of flows through me, right? And I get lost really quickly within myself. Right. It makes me laugh because he had made the comment and he's like, look, if you need three weeks, he's all I may not like it, but that's what you need, then just let me know. And it's fine. And I'm like, You're okay with that? Yeah. Call me when you're ready. So there's a lot of times where I will let him know I need today. Because I'm starting to lose myself here. I need

Stop Waiting And Come Back To You

SPEAKER_01 45:15

today to come back. And just that beautiful wave of like back and forth. Yes. That ocean wave, everything in nature does that. Expansion and contraction.

SPEAKER_06 45:27

Everything down to the cellular level does that.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Absolutely. It's fascinating.

SPEAKER_06 45:32

It is. And that's what in that's what interpersonal relationships do.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:37

It is a pendulating movement that comes back and forth. And the key is we cannot lose ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 45:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:47

We're far too valuable. And what you're seeing is you're a value.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:52

And what I think I hear you saying is that I'm starting to recognize when I'm losing myself. And when I do that, instead of making it about him, I bring it back to me. And when I'm looking for intensity, it's because I feel disconnected from you. How do I get that? Well, historically I fought and thought that that chaos felt connecting. But the chaos took me outside of me. So it was actually very disconnecting. Coming back into you, coming back to the place to where you know what you think, what you feel, what you experience, what you believe. Oh, I've lost my rhythm. And if I am not me, then how can I bring it to you, to where you can enjoy me, being fully me? And then there's this intensity, but it's a connection, not a rupture.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

And a lot of the times I come back quicker than what I've asked for, because I make it a point to make the time for myself. And it gets refreshed quite quickly. And I'm like, okay, miss you now. Can we talk?

SPEAKER_06 47:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:13

That's what I was gonna say that and I'm glad you did. The time frame will begin to shorten.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

It's kind of like the recovery of addiction or the recovery from the expansion. It gets shorter and shorter. Same concept in my mind.

SPEAKER_06 47:28

And when you've exercised a muscle, recovery is tends to your body knows what to do. So you recover much more quickly than the first time.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

That pathway is getting made. That's right. It's getting deeper. That's right. Yeah. There was a time that it happened the other way around. It's happened once where he has everything is just piling on. And I could kind of tell, and he was pulling away a little bit. And I said, Hey, do you need space today? He goes, Honestly, I do. And I think he was a little afraid to tell me that because I'm such a like attention, attention. I want my your attention. And I asked, Good. Yeah. And he's like, actually, yeah, I do. You know, okay, that's fine. But then internally I'm like, oh my God. Oh my god. I'm not gonna talk to you for a day, couple of days. Like, what's gonna happen? And because the fear c there was a lot of fear doing this again because the last time we did it, the pattern that happened, like we broke up. And we haven't talked for a week because I'm in work portal. So there was fear coming into this. I'm like, oh man, what's gonna happen when I talk to him tomorrow afternoon? But yeah, it but it's the okay, hang on a second, where are you? Come on, you're okay.

SPEAKER_06 48:48

Come on.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Next step is And having that conference meeting with all my parts, like you're okay.

SPEAKER_06 48:53

Right. Next step is now let's go discover where is he. And that's the beauty of the pendulum swing.

SPEAKER_03 49:01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 49:02

I've found me. Now let's go find you.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:06

And now let's really intentionally calibrate and move toward one another in a beautifully wonderful, I was gonna say explosive, but it it's just uh it's intense. And that's the beauty of intimacy.

SPEAKER_03 49:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:22

Of beautiful intimacy.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:25

So I am so excited for what you've laid out here. Because what you've shown us is that you've found you, you illuminated patterns. Those patterns are something that you wouldn't, you're like, I don't want to live in these.

SPEAKER_03 49:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:40

Because when I in that pattern, I cease to be me. And you're discovering your dashboard, like your language of what gets in the way.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:50

And is it scary? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

Oh my gosh, it's terrifying.

SPEAKER_06 49:54

But it's

Choosing The Person Not The Relationship

SPEAKER_06 49:55

also powerful and rewarding.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 49:59

I cannot thank you enough.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

I do want to add something that's very important that you're gonna be like, wow, that's incredible. I discovered that in all my years of wanting the love, I was always chasing the relationship.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Oh, you're someone that wants to date me? Cool. Not looking at that person, right? Chasing the relationship. I have noticed that I'm not chasing the relationship. I genuinely just want to be with this person because of the person. And that's huge for me.

SPEAKER_06 50:34

So you just beautifully articulated. I found me. So I had the ability to see him. Yeah. And I want him. Yeah. Not the package of what I think this is going to do for me.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 50:53

I want him.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Yeah. I look at his qualities and ask myself all the time, is and when I discover something new about him, do I love that or is that not for me? Does it take energy away from me or not?

SPEAKER_06 51:07

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

Yeah. So it's been really beautiful.

SPEAKER_06 51:10

Yeah. Thank you for coming in.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

Of course. Thank you so much for teaching me this strategy, I guess you would call it this method, because I use it every day, to be quite honest.

SPEAKER_06 51:21

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

So it's incredible.

SPEAKER_06 51:23

I love that. Thank you.

unknown 51:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Well, that's our time for today. Thank you to our guests for coming back and for going deeper anonymously, but honestly.

SPEAKER_06 51:36

And if something here landed, sit with the question that started us off. Where am I in this? Not just when things fall apart, when they get tough, but when things are going well and those old patterns are still quietly making the calls. That's where the real breakthrough lives.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

This has been Wait. Let's talk about that with Dr. Lee Long.

SPEAKER_06 52:01

And Lila Pond, take care of yourself. Take care of your people.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

And we'll see you next time.